Drummer Cafe Community Forum

I bought this dvd and was a very disappointed.

The title, "Trust Your Ears," pretty much sums up the advice this dvd offers. The message of this dvd seems to be that when a drum sounds like it's in tune, it probably is in tune. That's it. Not exactly earth shaking news. Especially from a guy who undoubtedly has insights into drums and tuning that I'd really like to hear.

I don't mean to knock Ocheltree, he's a great tuner, drum tech, and sound (mic) engineer. And from what I can tell from his dvd, I'm sure he's a great guy too. The problem is that he's just not a very good teacher.

This dvd seems to me like no one really bothered to sit down and write out a script (or even an outline) of what Ocheltree needed to cover. There are just too many vague comments and wasted opportunities for sharing information. Like when Ocheltree tells us, as he's tuning a drum, that while what he's doing might look random, he's really turning by sound and feel. Unfortnately, he never tells us what he's feeling and hearing, or what he's looking and listening for, or how it should feel and sound.

In another example, Ocheltree tells us that drums sound different in different places, and that when you're playing drums they are not going to sound the same to you as they will sound to a person in the audience. This isn't exactly news. But it would have been a great place to show us what the difference is: It would have been informative to let us hear the drums from above the kit and again from the audience's perspective. I could have learned a lot from just that little exercise. And could have learned even more to hear Ocheltree share some information (or even anecdotes) about his experiences with that difference in sound.

I had hoped for a lot more from this dvd. I wanted facts, informations, insights. As it is, this dvd looks like Ocheltree's vanity project -- with a sucession of friends and performers offering him compliments on what a great guy he is. I feel cheated.

I agree totally.  You summed it up nicely.  The only things I might add is that the impression I got was that if there were any real secrets Jeff has-hes keeping them locked away.  Truth of the matter is basically, the info he provides really arent secrets at all.  And most of us have already been applying what he preaches.  It would have been a very short dvd-the most important portion of the dvd is the title-trust your ears!  Weve been doing that all along-from choosing cymbals, micing, tuning, etc......IMO opinion, when it comes to drums, always trust your ears-hes certainly right about that-and its no secret at all!

I think making a DVD is harder than most drummers think.
I've been playing 25 years and I have no idea how to teach and wouldn't know where to start on a training DVD.
Some of the ones I've seen have obviously been 'grabbed' when the drummer was on a day off from a tour or hectic recording schedule.
Perhaps it's because the potential income for the 'talent' is much less than a tour date or recording session.
Having said that, there are some brilliant, informative releases out there.

Return it and get your money back.

That's a bummer to hear that it is less than stellar.

I had hoped that it would be a real insight into Bonham's tuning at least.

I guess Jeff is intent on taking it to the grave...

I ordered the DVD this morning.  Although, I'm not sure how objective I'll be.  While we're not close (as in communicate regularly), I do count him as a friend.  But I will watch and try to objectively compare it to what happened in my basement last winter.  I will tell you this, based on that day, and the drums I have, I can say with a high degree of certainty, I can get that Bonham sound on my own.  I'm not sure its the big mystery like everyone thinks.  Successfully recording it is something entirely different.

Drummers, or drum techs as in Ocheltree's case, are only subject matter experts.  That's why you hire out for the instructional development and video production.

Agreed, but almost anyone can weald a videocam these days. The people in charge of video production can often be as fanatical about drummers as we are.
I'm sure the powers of judgement often get clouded when offered a super star drummer for a day, with little time to develop or plan.
In the end, the production companies that can divorce themselves from fandom and treat it purely as a business, are the ones that have made the best product over the years.

Even the best video production teams aren't schooled in instructional design.  ;)

Seriously, I've seen great production in some of these drum videos, but most fall WAY short of actually being instructional.  I won't argue the fact that people can still be learn by watching, but the videos could be so much more useful from an educational standpoint if they hired out people to design the training.

Jeep,

I agree. And I know it sounds silly, but there really needs to be a lot more emphasis on the instructional design in the dvds that are being sold as "instructional."

And, yes, I also agree that part of the problem is that it's far too easy to pick up a camera and start filming.

I think that as consumers we should not accept this level of half-hearted, uncaring production and cynical marketing. It's just plain exploitative. I like to think that all of us here, as drummers (and in anything else we may do), would never put forth such a half-hearted effort and then expect to have it pass as something of quality and value.

Again, I'm sure that Ocheltree is a great drum tech. It's just that for whatever reasons he's put together a lousy dvd. And it's a pity, too, because he has so much valuable information he could be sharing. I sincerely wish he had done a better job with the dvd.

I think production companies have a lot to do with quality of instruction.  For example, Hudson Music seems to have a real passion for education (used to be DCI video - not sure why they changed). In fact, the owners of Hudson Music also own the Drummer's Collective in NYC.  They don't seem to focus on snatching up a big name artist and pressing "record" on the camera.

I have yet to see a poor DVD come from that studio.  Many of their DVDs are over 3 hrs in length and are packed with supplemental materials like PDF transcriptions or MP3s.  These are the same guys that put out the Steve Smith DVD, so that gives you a good indication of their standards.

Let's not forget, those of us who haven't yet seen this DVD, it might be fantastic with loads of great tips.
The title is insightful at least.  :)

Huff,

The Ocheltree dvd is, apparently, the exception that proves this rule.

Chrisso,

Save your money and save your time: The title is the only thing about this dvd that is insightful.

I can't find that DVD in their DVD catalog (http://hudsonmusic.com/DVD/dvd_main.html).  ??

I fond it listed at Hal Leonard:

click here (http://www.halleonard.com/item_detail.jsp?itemid=320447&location=Percussion&catcode=10&refer=new&order=2&filter=2w)

Hal Leonard not= Hudson Music.

It lists 'Publisher: Rittor Music'

 :o

Ooops! My mistake.

It's Rittor Music, not Hudson.

Sorry.

Ah yes, I seem to recall they did the truly execrable Progressive Drum Concepts.

I think I understand what you're saying.  Keep in mind that having a passion for education is not the same thing as hiring out instructional designers to ensure a good product.  Instructional design is more of a science than an art, and takes qualified (education & experience) people to do it right.  Including a lot of info in the content and making nice videos does not constitute good instruction, no matter how good the intentions for educational value.  However, I admit it's a push in the right direction and a better effort than many of the self-glorification products on the market today.

I base my opinion about Hudson on the fact that they've been doing videotaped instruction since they were DCI Music Video in 1982 and the fact these guys own the Drummer's Collective - one of the most recognized educational institution for drum set study in the world.

But I understand your point, Jeep.