Drummer Cafe Community Forum

My problem is that I can't decide which ones to get.

I know I want maple.  The sound is just unbeatable.  Here is the problem-I don't want to jump into anything that I will regret. I'm looking at these kits:

LUDWIG Classic Maple - 8225 or 8226
8225- 16x22 10x12 11x13 16x16 & 6.5x14 snare  $2100
8226- 16x22 9x10 10x12 12x14 14x16 & 6.5x14 snare $2400

TAMA Starclassic Maple -
18x22 8x10 9x12 11x14 (no snare)  $2100

DW Satin oil Series Maple Shell -
18x22 8x10 9x12 11x14 (no snare)  $2800

The thing that I don't like about the Tama's and the DW's is that the drums sizes are kind of small. I cant seem to find a standard kit from either company that has larger sizes.  It seems that the Ludwigs offer more for the money.

I've had very limited experience playing any of these, the only exact one I've played is the DW.  I've played Ludwig Maple's but not these exact sets and I've never played the Tama Maple.

Any advice I can get would be greatly appreciated, from anyone who owns the above or similar kits.  I hope to order my kit soon to have it before the summer is over!!!!!!!!!

Have you looked at the Sonor 3005 series?
There is a nice kit in the store I teach in. It's around $1200.

Thanks nudrum, I'll add that to my list.

first off, depending on which you go with i am not sure if any would be here before the summer is over. (unless you buy it from floor model or something instock online)
but if i were to go, i would do
tama, dw, then ludwig. my reasons are tama are great drum, great hardware, all around just great. extremely good finishes and the maples are very classy and eligant with their stamp badges, etc. tama also has diecast, so keep that in mind as well (either like it or dont)
dw i love but the only reason they are not first is b/c i think tama gives you a lot more for a cheaper price. i think they are a bit pricey, but still good looking drums. also dw is about the only one that will give you a satin finish if that is what you are looking for.
lugwig...i have seen them, played them....both the old and the new. there is just something i cant put my finger on tha ti just dont like about them. i think it is the lack of inovation and they are just out of date. i am the person though that likes the new and fancy stuff...and i just do not like old looking kits, so maybe that is it.  the drums just are not very attractive to me at all. they sound decent (i would take either of the 2 above sound first though) but that is my piddly little unimportant opinion  ;D
btw, what about mapex saturn or pearl masters? if you have not played a mapex saturn, do your hardest to find one. that inner ply of walnut takes a maple shell to the max. they sound amazing...one of the best kits i have ever heard imo.

Since you appear to have narrowed it down, here is my experience  - I have seen the DW's, played the Ludwigs and own the Tamas.  You will not be disappointed in any of these kits.  I am a birch kind-a-guy, but all the maple kits sound great too.  I jumped on the Tamas because I like their hardware the best and I was able to get a limited edition 6 piece set in my dream finish - However, had that set not come available, the Luddies were my next choice.  Check around for deals and see if folks will bargain abit.  Those prices sound about $200-300 high.  I am a bit shy about DW because I think (personal opinion here) they are overpriced.  Sure, there are about 6-8 other companies that will make you happy in that price range but go with what you want.  2K is a nice pile of change - go for it!!! - You will not regret it.

Thanks for all your great advice!  Keep it coming!

I'm going for a kit without hardware, since I already have most of what I need. But that brings me to another question. Can you purchase seperate mounts for each "floor" tom instead of putting them on a double stand? I'm sure this is possible but all of the kits my friends own (and mine) have standing floor toms.  I'm not too sure if I like the idea of the mounted ones.
I welcome any opinions.


thx

Well, yes you can.  Mainly, you see these where you are mounting a "floor" or other tom to a cymbal stand.  At anyrate, you will need a stand if you are going to mount them.  Your other choices are after market legs (need to drill holes, measure, make sure it looks good with your setup) from your manufacturer (or a generic maker) or baskets (legs attach to hoop - insert drum in hoop).  I would go with the tom stand as you describe.  From the looks of it, you may be leaning toward the Luddies, with double "floor" toms.  Even with legs on toms, in a traditional setup - floor toms on the right - you really don't have that much adjustment room (before reaching that back tom becomes awkward or uncomfortable).  Now if you are going with a non-traditional setup, like putting one of the toms next to your snare - you will need one of the other choices I mentioned - good luck and keep us posted (BTW - I like the luddies in champagne sparkle!!)

Ludwig in Black Diamond.

The Ludwig's are winning me over.  It turns out I can get all the custom sizes for about the same price as their packages(you guys already knew this I'm sure-this is my first real kit-so I didn't know) and come in $1000 less than DW.  Add to it that Ludwig delivers in 4-8 weeks and DW may take up to 3 or 4 months....I'm an impatient person by nature.

So if anyone thinks I'm about to make a mistake please let me know.

I haven't been able to find a Tama Starclassic anywhere....Couldn't find a Mapex Saturn either.

I asked around about Sonor and heard some not so great things about the customer service, so that kinda scares me.

thanks for all the advice
I'll keep you posted

Ludwig is a fine choise. I'm sure you will enjoy that purchase. I also would go with the Black Diamond. How ever the color doesn't make that great sound.

Why do you want deeper rack toms?  Shallow toms can be much easier to position and can provide better rebound.  They're plenty loud.  I like 8X10 and 9X12 rack toms but have also used 8x12 and 9X13 with a 16X16 floor tom.  My current Tama Starclassic maple setup includes: 18X22 bass drum, 8X10, 9X12, 11X13, 14X15 "rack" toms (hanging from Tama Roadpro combo stands), and a 16x18 floor tom.  I usually use the 14X15 as the right hand "floor tom" and the 11x13 as a "floor tom" to the left of my hats.

There are MANY options in kits.  All three companies you mention make great products.  I like the Tama and Yamaha lacquer finishes the best and think the DWs are overpriced.  Mapex and Fibes may be the best bargains of the major manufacturers.

I too shopped around for several months before deciding on Ludwig Maple Classics (w/bubinga outer ply). I also ordered just the shell pack so I could pick non "standard" sizes, (18x22, 10x12, 10X14, 16x16w/legs) (already had 6x12 copper snare).
I kept my Yamaha hardware and added just enough to accomodate GPI R.I.M.S. for the two rack toms to hang from cymbal stands.
   Some of the reasons for my choice:
(1) always wanted Ludwig since I started playing in the 70's,
      and Ludwig is what you saw almost all the time on TV
(2) felt like the right thing to do, to buy a kit that was built
      in the country where I live
(3) way cheaper than dw (also U.S. made)
(4) doesn't have new fangled looking round lugs
(5) wanted a kit that sounded "Bonhamesque"
(6) the Ludwig finish is way underrated (that bubinga is
      gorgeous and the laquer is like glass)

NOW, EVERYTHING THAT HAS PROS HAS TO HAVE CONS--I was quoted 6-8 weeks for my custom order and it ended up being 13 weeks, (which seemed way longer than it was). HOWEVER, that being said, I'm very glad I endured the wait and if I ever had to replace these, I would probably order exactly the same again.

I would chose Ludwig, too.  I've read a lot of very positive reports on their maple drums lately, so now I'm considering these drums for my next purchase.  Well, either Ludwig, Tempus or Fibes.  ;D

Thank you all so much!!!!
The luddies it is!
I'll be ordering early next week, hopefully it won't take 13 weeks---UGH---

You may also want to look here, in this thread: http://community.drummercafe.com/index.php?board=10;action=display;threadid=14249
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As far as my opinion goes, I would go for the Starclassic Maple. I have only heard (as far as I know) the Tama and DW kits, and I personally don't like the sound of the DW drums. With all the DW kits I have had experience with, the toms were too ringy for my tastes with the standard heads on them, even with the dampening around the edge of the head. And with other heads on them, they sound either very dead or just plain out weird. I think this is because of the sound focus rings on the inside of the bearing edge. If you like that sound, it is fine. Check the inside of the shells of the DW kit. Does it have rings extending from the inside of the shell for about 2 millimeters or so? If so, and you like the sound of them with the rings, get that kit. I once played on a DW kick drum (22x20), with the rings, the standard heads, and a DW pillow inside the bass drum, and it sounded excellent. I don't recall how the snare sounded, but if you don't like that, you can just buy a different snare drum. However, I don't like the deadening effect of the rings. The bass drum sounded great, but I wouldn't buy a kit just for an excellent sounding bass. If you are like me, and you still want DW's, check to see if that kit has no SF rings (I have only seen 1 like this, and they were birch shells). However, I have heard the sound of SC Maples with the heads tuned loose on the toms and kick, and tight on the snare. This kit's toms and kick didn't have rings on them, but I think standard SC Maple snares do. It still had a good crack in it, though. The toms were tuned loose and had Evans G2 Coated heads on them. They still resonated heavily, despite being tuned low and being 2-ply. The kick drum had the Aquarian SK1/RGLTR Combo on it. I know the batter head was really loose, and I think the resonant was as well, but I could be wrong. When I stood within about 10 feet of the Subwoofer, I could feel it and hear it really well. They sounded excellent, even though I only got to hit them with my hands (and never got to sit behind them). The sizes of the toms were also about the same as the ones on the DW kit, and they were a lot better sounding than the DW toms. The heads made some difference, but the fact that the shells on the Starclassic didn't have SF Rings made it sound all the better, IMO. The kick was only an 18x20, and it sounded bigger than the DW kick, which was tuned a bit higher than the Tama.

This is why my next kit will be a Starclassic. Sure, I could order a DW without rings, but it would still be more expensive, and I still really love that Tama Starclassic Maple sound. But all that above (with the exception of the link and everything above the line near the top of this post) is just my personal opinion, and shouldn't alter your choice. Do it based upon what YOUR ears enjoy, not mine. That's the reason I chose the SC Maple to be my next kit. Good luck. :)

Which kits were those and under what conditions?  Once you became displeased with them did you sell them?  Trade them in?  Or do you still own them?

Dave, I didn't actually own the DW kits. I didn't own the Tama, either. None of them were tuned exactly the way I like them, but the Starclassic still appealed to me. I have played on several Starclassic Performers at 1 time or another and I also liked those. Not as much as the maple I heard, but still, I liked them. I, however, can't even remember a time when I heard a DW kit that I liked as a whole. That is why I compared them. Although none of them were tuned the way I like, the SC kits still appealed to me WAAAAYY more than the DW kits. And I have only played on and or heard a few Starclassics, but have heard or played at least 7 or 8 DW kits. Sorry for the confusion. I have never owned a Tama SC or DW, but I still love the sound of the Starclassics, and don't like the DW sound. Again, sorry for the confusion.  :(

DW's are a cut above Tama and Ludwig in fit and finish.  You pay for it.  They also have a very warm maple "tube" or "saturated" (as in gain structure) sound.  It's a great sound when miked properly or with proper stage volumes (acoustic applications).  That is the DW sound- the rest is all tuning; slappy, punchy, ringy, boingy- whatever.  

I've owned a DW kit and I'm glad I did.  You can't play a drumset in a store and make real judgements on a kit.   My DW did happen to sound tremendous on the showroom floor, but I've bought a bunch of other kits that didn't and they turned out pretty awesome sounding also.

I don't compare them with custom drum builders... DW's are all grown up with their own hardware.  

So you pay more for that also- to me they are unique in that you can get a custom drumset with full matching hardware.  Not alot of other companies can do that.

Ludwigs and Tama's are great with their associated "sound" also.  If you like these *which I do also* then pull the trigger on one of those kits.

What I would do if I was knocked out by a DW would be buy that then have a used Tama or Ludwig for your "beater" kit.  

I need to get another DW kit just to goof on you guys.

Starclassics boing harder than any drumset out there.  The yamaha absolute customs (another really thin shell maple) has that "boing" also.

 Portnoys drums sound really boingy to me.  I'm not trying to be combative but that's the starclassic sound.  Lot's of people love it.  Personally, it's totally not me.

Not to sound like an owned whore here but look into more than the obvious choices. I saw Sonor mentioned above...great drums and company. Also look into Yamaha,Gretsch,and Peace. My Peace Onxy kit ( one of the mid lines ) has 6 plies maple and 4 plies mahogony. Great kit with a great sound. Take the time to look at alot of companies and if possible take a listen to each one of the kits you have interest in. This way you can get a feel for the sound you want that suites you.

I could be wrong, but that boinging may be the cause of the shells w/out the rings. Do your DW kits have rings, Felix? If so, that may make the boinging that you are talking about dissapate quicker. I personally love the sound of the starclassics. The DW shells with rings sound a little too thuddy for my tastes. I love Portnoy's tom sound on the purple monster, but with just a tad more resonance than that. I also love his snare sound on his Mapex Kit (listen to "A Change of Seasons" by his band, Dream Theater to hear it). It has a really poppy, tight sound, which I like. Of course, I like my snares to be a lot tighter than his. I heard him say on a Tama video that he likes his snares somewhat loose. I like mine to be very tight and crisp. As for my bass drum, I don't like mine to sound like his. He likes his to be tuned loose and flappy, and to be stuffed with pillows. It sounds like a very short sound that you can barely hear. I like mine to give off a low end response with lots of mid-end included in it. I don't stuff my kick at all.

But with that starclassic kit that I heard (it was at church, not at a store. A couple of DW kits were at that same place. I didn't like the sound), the toms were very resonant, despite being tuned loose (and with Evans G2 Coated heads on them, too :o). The snare was not the sound I like, but that's ok. I can get a different snare. I also liked the kick drum. It was also tuned very loose, and it still sounded monstrous (and it was only a 20x18). But the DW drums, like you said, sound to me like drums that need to be miked up live. But the Starclassic sounded both good when I stood next to the speakers, and when I was next to it. DW drums sound good in the moniter to me, but not when you are behind the kit. I just like the warm yet resonant sound of the SC Maple drums. But if you like the DW sound, that's fine.

I personally hate the DW sound, but love the Starclassic Sound. Thank you for voicing your opinion, Felix.  :)

According to what you've said you never played tama's starclassic so why are you considering to buy them.. take your time and try 'em as much as you can

Your welcome!  I love it when people thank me for my own opinion.  

When I had my DW kit back in 1989/90 how old were you?  1?  Did your kit have focus rings on it back then?  Mine did and I actually go them to seperate from the shell.  Must have been from all the gigging I did all over NE ohio.  What were you doing back then?  

 Don't think I've lost much since then either.  I'm better than ever playing twice as mad and 3X bigger.  I'm so good I can have the luxury of playing with bad technique.  I still have my @$%# hearing and when I wear my wig, still make the teeny boppers giggle and barmaids get me drinks (don't even need a wig for that one).  In fact I'm at the point in my career now that I have to turn down the teeny boppers, free drinks, barmaids and everything else cause I've already been there and done that.  Yep, I've had about 3 or 4 different styles already and I still practice every day (we don't even get Sundays off cause we are playing from 12am to 2 am).  And on top of all those road chops I have probably had enough music lessons and schooling for 3 people.

Just thought I would remind you who it was you were thanking for their opinion.

Dude, chill.

Xdrummer2000, as the proud owner of a fine DW kit, I thank you sincerely for allowing me to like thier sound.  Likewise you have my permission to dislike them!

Everybody wins!

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Regarding your perdicament, drummer1202, I currently own Slingerland, Ludwig, and DW kits.  I've never owned a Tama kit, so I can't offer an experienced-based opinion on them.  But I can vouch for the quality of the other two.  They're both fine reputable companies and they both make excellent drums.  You can't really go wrong with either.  In your original post you state:

The thing that I don't like about the Tama's and the DW's is that the drums sizes are kind of small. . .  It seems that the Ludwigs offer more for the money.

It sounds like you had a lean toward the Ludwigs all along.  They make a great drum.  They have for many, many years.  You won't be disappointed.

I really appreciate all of your opinions & I came for advice because I don't have alot of experience buying drums(I didn't even realize you could just order the sizes you want, as I said in my earlier post).  I've only bought one kit & that was a starter kit which I am extremely displeased with at this point.

And to jazZzman-no I've never played starclassics.  The reason I would consider buying them is that everyone I talk to loves tama.  If everyone on the forum had responded that starclassics were the best then I probably would not stop until I found a set to play.  Unfortunately,  I still haven't been able to find any.  The stores by me carry mid priced kits- usually nothing in maple. Except DW's- which as I said before seem a little overpriced.  

I didn't know drums could sound so beautiful until the first time I played on a set of Ludwigs. I didn't know if it was the fact that they were maple or that they were Ludwig that made them sound so good. That was over 3 months ago and I've been dying for a new kit ever since.

I asked the opinions of all the drummers that I know and the names that continually came up were Tama, DW and Ludwig. Since then I played on as many kits as I could & deciced that it was the maple sound that I liked.

So maybe I do have a lean toward the Ludwigs 'cuz they started me on this voyage, but I don't want to end up with a kit that I will be unhappy with.  Of course I'm using my own ears to make the call, but opinions from people who know the products well are a great help.

Thank you all again for the responses.

Hey, all of us here at the drummer cafe are glad to be of help.

Anyway, if you have kicked the DW drums out of the picture because of their priciness, and you are still looking at the Starclassic Maple (which I HIGHLY recommend you look into; they sound great, IMO). Do you have any friends or acquaintances who have a Starclassic Maple? If so, arrange a time with them when you can try it out. If your ears like the same sound mine do, than you will most likely like what you hear.

LMAO!!!! 8)

Get Ludwigs and start choppin'