DRUMMER CAFE - Community Forum

Ok guys and gals how 'bout when you have an opener.  Do you make every one set up in front of the riser or do you let them play your drums!

How to keep from being an a**hole and still make friends with the up-and-comer!

Let me hear ya!

I will follow up later with what I have done. Let me hear you guys!

Remember.  It sucks to be the opener, unless your the opener!

Yeah, always a tricky thing.

I first chat with the guy a bit when asked. I want to determine whether or not he's a basher. If I get any bad vibes, I tell him that I've had bad experiences in the past and that it's no reflection on him at all.

But most of the time I'll offer to let the guy play my kit, so long as he uses his own snare, cymbals, sticks and pedal.

Remember that karma is real. If you're a d!ck to someone, you'll get it right back at you. I try to respect every drummer I come in contact with, and most of the time the respect is returned in kind.

I'm moving toward playing such a weird kit that no one else will be able to comfortably use it. I'm also trying to consolidate as much hardware as possible to streamline my setup/strike time.

I'll offer to help another drummer move a kit, but I don't share.

Like Sidereal, most of the time I'll offer to let the guy play my kit, so long as he uses his own snare, cymbals, sticks and pedal.  Unless of course he is a %$#@@#....

Apologies in advance for taking this one off on a tangent:

Here's one for the mallet players in the group.  A friend of mine is exploring the world of alternate keyboard note arrangements (different from the "black key/white key" arrangement we're all used to on the piano).  The "6+6" keyboard has the same 12 notes, but arranged differently.  Check it out:

http://users.rcn.com/roypertchik/theory1.htm

Now THERE'S something to guarantee that no other vibes players sit in on the gig"!!!  ;)

nobody else plays my gear ever.   im a jerk like that :)  actually im just really protective of my gear.  i do make exceptions with bandmates and good friends, but those are rare.  for the most part though its NOPE!

ive played as the opener in front of other rigs before and have no problem with it as long as i have the room i need.  if im headlining, i usually keep my gear tucked away as much as possible to let anyone else have the room.  then i re-set when it our time.  unless theres room for both (rare)

I have a VERY nice kit, but my view, and it's just a personal thang, is that they're JUST drums...now I know alot of you guys are going, "THERE JUST DRUMS..WHY I OUGHTA *^(&(^(@#@#"...yeah, I know ::), but I figured well, I spend most of my time trying to destroy these things and it hasn't worked yet, so what is somebody else gonna do to them that I haven't tried? :P THEY'RE DRUMS!!! Made to hit....get it? Now, I do prefer that some other drummer has his own BD pedal, snare and cymbals when it's possible, but no big deal...I have plenty of spare heads and pedals and cymbals and heads and pedals and cymbals, lions & tigers and bears, OH MY!!!!!  ;D

thats part of my problem ... i dont ... not only is it not really financially viable, but i dont (knock on wood ;)) need 'em.  i havent broken so much as a stick (i dont break guitar strings either) in ages.  i play a certain way, and have spent a fair amount of time on my set to get the sound i want out of each part.  its all cheap junk really, whitehall drums, vintage budget paiste's ... but i work a day job to afford these things and i like to keep them in the condition i keep them in.  there are very few people id trust to respect my kit and me enough to use it.

not trying to be defensive, just explaining myself a little further :)

Who would want to?

I'll play someone elses kit and respect it and usually not like it.

I have my "beater" yamaha's that I'll let people play if I have to...but if they are bashers I'll take my pound of flesh.  I don't have to do that crap anymore really.

Ah yes...this stuff is inevitable. I don't like having to play on someone else's kit or vice-versa but, have always had good experiences when I had to. Luckily, I knew who the person was usually but, if I didn't I would get to know them and go from there.

Drummers tend to have the same of view of their drum kits like anything else they love and respect. It becomes part of you and very personal. It is sort of weird when you see someone else playing on your stuff and I'm sure it's that way for the other person as well but, if you have a good attitude about it, that will come back around and reward you in many other ways. ;)

Unless I know the drummer of the other band really well, I usually won't let them touch my gear, just admire at a distance.  If that makes me a jerk  or an @$$hole, so be it.  I've spent s**tloads on that gear over the years and I don't want to see any of it f**ked up by anyone.

In the case of playing somebody else's gear, I generally don't like to, because I have the same respect for them and their gear as I would expect them to have for me and mine.

Well, I guess I am the anomaly, since I have never been a headliner.  I usually am the opener and I usually use my own gear.  The only time I haven't is when the headlining act we open for has a rider that specifies a back line kit (as is the case next week).  Since it is usually a good quality kit, set up, tuned and miked by professionals, it's a lot easier to use that then lug all my stuff for a 30-45 minute opening set.  Back in college, I generally had no problem sharing equipment on festival type jobs, but even then, I preferred my own cymbals and snare.  

Yeah, it's strictly a personal thang........... ;)

I'll let openers use my set, but after I warn them that they're probably not going to be able to play it. I'm only 5'4, and on top of that, I like to have my set-up as tight and as much in front of me as possible. I offer, but rarely someone wants to use my setup after seeing it up. That's one perk of being short....

They do have to have their own snare, cymbals, and sticks. My stands are all on a rack system most of the time, so they can't move them around. I'm firm on those two items, but other than that... heads are heads and if I have to spend $8 for a new evans head... so be it. If they open for us again, he'll need his own kit.

One more point ... it also matters what type of music YOU are playing, and what type THEY are playing. Something is more likely to break/go wrong at a hard rock show, than with a jazz or new age combo.

More clubs and music venues around Manhattan here are starting to provide drums (no cymbals or sticks) and a full backline (amps, heads, mics, PA, etc). This comes complete with a sound guy. It makes it way easier this way, but then you have to worry about the drums not feeling right, etc... But it's rare you can have the best of both worlds.

For some gigs I'd much rather use a house kit and only bring cymbals/snare instead of shlepping mine. I haven't run into sets that were just not playable.

This is my situation too. I'm 5'5". I had some guy in an opening band last weekend come up to me (while I was sitting down eating dinner) and ask to play my kit. I played the routine I mentioned in my previous post and said "sure." I noticed the guy was like 6'2" so I watched in amusement as he crept on stage and behind the kit, looked around, came back, and said "know what, I think I'll just set up mine in front of yours."  :)

So I'm sure that part of my willingness is that people are likely to not want to play it.

But I've got no problem with it usually. I also don't mind playing another kit. I've done this when I've opened and just made the damned thing work to my advantage. This is also what often happenes when a promoter is sponsoring an event, where kits are provided for the club in advance.

One more thing before I shut up. For one of my bands (Shana), often a drum kit is provided for the gig, which is happening this weekend since I have to fly to the gig. I got to pick my top choices of drumkit and configuration, but I have no idea what'll be there when I get to the gig!

I also forgot to mention.... INSTRUMENT INSURANCE!!!


I have insurance for all my ka-rap, so again, if something MAJOR happens to my stuff via other loving drummers, or really ANYTHING besides general use, I'm covered. I have a $100 deductable, and have about $12,000 worth of stuff covered. I pay about $150 per year. Personally, to shell out 150 bones for piece of mind (no matter where my drums are - reherasal space, home, car, gig, airplane, etc.) is NOT a bad deal.

For someone with less than $12,000 worth of goodies, a typical 5 piece, with cymbals and cases, goes for about $60 a year. $60!!!!!

www.musicproinsurance.com

-Chris

I could write on an on about this topic.   I'll try to keep it brief and just say that the only time I have a problem with opening acts using my gear is when the promotor tells them it'll be fine WITHOUT CHECKING WITH ME FIRST!!    This has happened to me more than a few times.   Actually most recently it happened when I was in the supporting band!!   The 'headliners'  (headliners only by virtue only of being a novelty act and from very far away)  were thankful enough but didn't lift a finger to help....not cool the drummer didn't help considering I waited around until their show was finished to pack up my gear......and it had to be carted quite a distance by hand.   The price I pay for being too nice sometimes!!  

I've reluctantly given in to help keep the peace on other occasions....and have now alerted my management that in future there will be a charge payable in advance to yours truly for providing drums to support acts (and headliners!!)....and to trust that there will be a major dilemma if I'm not taken seriously.  

That aside, I have no problem letting others use my gear so long as I know the drummer has respect for other people's gear and so long as I like the person to begin with.        8)

One last remark. I swear I'll shut up.

At a small show I had last night, the drummer from the other band playing with us offered to bring the kit. It's a small lounge type place, with no parking, plus it was raining, so turned out to be a good deal for me.  ;) Anyway, I go up to play, and I have my cymbals/snare drum in tow. He gives me a look like, "you brought your own cymbals? Mine aren't good enough?" ... so he gives a little huff and takes his cymbals of the stands.  ???

I guess some people WANT you to play their stuff!!! Go figure...

(But that episode made me think of the drummer cafe at my gig!  ;D )

thats key in all live situations, be they with the sound man, other bands, bar tender, doorman, that guy whose been there since before you got there and sat in that one spot at the bar all freakin night, etc.  i may not let people play my rig, but im nice about it :)

I have made a living from my drum equipment just like a carpenter with his tools and I dont let other people touch my drums unless they are COOL & friends with me. Drums have been my livelihood & my salvation and I respect them all.. I have even turned down help from people at a gig ( for hauling) when I saw how they handled other peoples equipment. Other people are not as careful as you are no matter what they say. I have allowed other players to use my stuff before & regretted it. Not every time, but I've watched someone smack my cymbals hard enough to make me flinch & I hate that  cop" feeling when you have to go up to someone & tell them to get off your set. So I just say "nope."
    I have been allowed ( after asking the drummer who owns the set personally, beforehand) to play other peoples drums before ( always bring my own sticks, pedals, & cymbals, and ALWAYS clear it with the other drummer FIRST. Other band members dont count. ...) & I feel a little hypocritical , but I guess I am greedy with the things I have worked so hard to be mine. Mine !!! MIne !!!!MINE !!!!!  ;)  I have a nice set, nothing fancy, but I had to pay for every piece myself, & I cannot afford to replace things. I am proud to say I have never broken anything on any drumset ever !
          As for other band members ( whom I usually consider friends. ) if they are gentle & cool I say "ok," : AS LONG AS I GET TO PLAY WITH THEIR AX OF CHOICE. See how that flies, and the discussion may never come up again.
 Or do what I did for awhile ( when I had the room), get a seperate entire drumset used & real cheap ( preferrably usable but thrashed & covered with stickers !!) & use it at gigs ( make sure it sounds good but looks like hell) when you are not sure of the setups and then you may not mind so much if someone plays with it. If you ask about the venue you should be able to find out if rotation & room is an issue. Knowledge can really help you prepare your setup. Never bring something you REALLY care about to a gig. Save that for Home, the studio or rehearsals. Fate can be cruel.

I played at a street fair on Sunday in Jersey, the sound company (panavid) brought with them a 6 piece yamaha kit, they had one ride, a crash, and a china, that's it, and no matter how I tried to adjust the kit I could'nt get comfortable, so this goes to show how I prefer to play my own kit, not that the kit was bad, as a matter of fact it sounded really good, it was just uncomfortable for me, not to mention that I play my ride on the left side of the kit and had to switch that around making the sound techs have to move mics around is not a good way to make friends.

I think we played at the same festival! I was at the Hoboken Arts and Music Festival / NJ Transit Festival... we played at 1 PM, what about you?

Hey chris, I think we did, small world, we played sometime about 3:00-3:30pm.

Yea, it is a small world! I bet I heard you play and didn't even know it!

My band (Icewagon Flu) played on the NJ Transit stage, near the PATH station. Talk about miscomunication - the presenter told us we had to bring everything from amps to a full drum kit. We haul everything down there, cops escort our 2 cars though the sea of people, etc... we get to the stage, and everything is there!! The sound company was told to provide everything, so they did.

It gets better though... I'm happy I dont have to set my drumkit up now, but I go get a closer look at the drums (mainly the stands).. and none of the stands have any cymbal sleves, nuts or pads - including the hi-hat! It turns out that the set is the personal set of one of the soundmen. Since I have to use my own cymbals, I'm now going to have to use my own stands. There's no way I'm going put my babies on metal, and then play em. Well, he took BIG offense to this... we proceeded to get in a mini arguement that there was no way I'm going to use his stands, because of the lack of cymbal protection. He tried to convice me it's fine, and it's only metal.

Needless to say, I replaced his stands with mine, played an awesome show, and brushed off the looks I got from him afterward.

I was just going to use my washers/pads/nuts ... but they weren't compatible with his stands.

The show went great, and thats all that matters  ;D

I'm with you Chris I used my own stands cymbals and pedals.  Next time I play in the Jersey area I'll give hit you with an instant message so we can meet.

I'm two faced.
Usually i provide own pedal,snare and cymbals and talk to the drummer involved when playing on their kit. I need to know if it's o.k to move things about or leave as is and i will compromise and follow his wishes with respect.
Normally only experience this in a situation where there is a show and there is set gear on the stage.
When it comes to others using any of my gear-it doesn't happen! Hard i know but i earned my kit, paid out of gig money and i'm not gonna let anyone break anything (that's my privilage).

At this point in my project, we are headlining and opening some shows.  We have played with several dozen Nashville nationals and I would say probably 75% of the drummers in these projects are about the same as I am.  I don't mind at all if someone uses my kit, less the sticks (come on, it's like letting someone else use your underwear) pedals, throne, and snare.  The drummers have been cool about it.  I have had BIG problems when advancing a show with the road managers.  A lot of times, I have had a road manager say ABSOLUTELY NOT, just to have the drummer show up and ask why we were using two kits.  ANYWAY, I feel like letting someone use your kit just builds a better working relationship in our profession.  I always say, "watch the toes you step on going up, cuz they might be attached to the As-es you have to kiss on the way back down. ;D

I had a similar experience this past weekend. No sleves on the stands. So I took out some electrical tape and made a nice, thick, even wrap around all the areas of metal where the cymbal might touch. Worked great and the kit was a great sounding, luscious pink sparkle DW. :)

(btw, this was AFTER I had broken my Zildjian, so there's no connection. )

I can't believe that people can do that >:(.
There is no excuse for lack of simple maintenance.
I once had a drummer ask me to help get the buzz out of his snare. I turned it over and took out a loose screw that was rattling inside :P. Makes you wonder ???