Drummer Cafe Community Forum

My faveourite band is definitely KISS. I would give anything just to meet one of them, and I would live as a homeless person for 10 years just to meet Eric Carr, (even though its impossible, as hes dead). But anyway, to the point. I live in Middlesbrough, a really trashy town in England, which is so polluted it has its own O-Zone layer. I love rock/metal/nu metal and classic rock. 90% of the chav population of Middlesbrough hate it, and listen to crap rave and hip hop, and whats more, no one has heard of KISS!!!!! They are huuuugggeeeee in
America, so why does no one know them here?

Hmmm... Not sure.  Maybe because they haven't recorded anything of significance for say... 20 years?  

 ;)

(and that's being generous)

very generous..you could almost add another ten on there..

Yes, KISS is an older group and not one that is really active like RUSH or The Rolling Stones.

KISS "Destroyer" was my first rock album purchase in the mid-70's.  :-\

Yeah...they were pretty good back in the day, but they're far from huge here in the ' states now.  I don't think too many people here under the age of 30 would even know much about them except that they wore tons makeup-if that much.

-Mike

i love KISS.
i love Peter Criss and of course Eric Carr *rest in peace* and there best drummer ERIC SINGER.

first time i heard KISS alive three i thought is that neil peart playing the Kiss song *Deuce* ...no thats Eric Singer.

very very good drummer.
KISS Unplugged is awsome.
for my money the band is still cool to me.
i still love to play the stuff on occasion.
and My oldest daughter is named after one of their songs
SHANDI. :D

They had quite the resurgence in popularity in the late nineties.  I guess it did taper off, though.  You'll hear from Gene Simmons on occasion, recently on NPR's Fresh Air.

KISS was more of a novelty act anyway, weren't they?

Double Platinum was my very first record album.  When you're 8 years old and just discovering rock music, KISS was a real mind blow.

I became a huge Kiss fan back in the day.  From Alive on up through Alive 2.  Then I sort of lost touch.  I was in my middle teens in the mid-70's and I'm sorry I never saw them live in their heyday.

They were certainly huge in the mid-70's but not so much since then.

I recently saw Alice Cooper and Eric Singer was his drummer.  The guy smokes.  I always had a soft spot for Peter Criss and the original lineup.  I thought the chemistry was there and I liked Criss's style.  

No?

That was one of my first albums.  Great stuff for a 10 yr old.  I can't think of anything after the Dynasty album except for that hideous song "Lick It Up". Ugh.  

I saw KiSS in concert (backing up Aerosmith).

So Paul Stanley look at the croud (This was a DRY concert in Tennessee) and says "The women here are great! They been welcoming us with open arms and open legs!".

So the audience stares at him like one big family that knows each others thoughts of this statment not even smiling or looking at each other. (I am guessing in New York this would have amused the croud) and he stares back...this goes on for at lest 10 seconds then the band looks at each other like they were lost and needed directions back on the highway north (I guess they had no bible belt humor).

It was strangely funny watching the band struggle with this failed attempt at being cool. Not being originally from the south I observed these type of reactions with a real fascination.

KISS is a weird band for me. I've never owned a KISS album but I've seen them live four times. You couldn't beat them for pure rock concert fun back in the 70s.

They are still huge in merchandising. They even market a KISS coffin that doubles as a bar or a beer cooler or something. KISS has so much merchandise floating around that if you type KISS into eBay, you get a whole site map.

I stumbled across Peter Criss's website a few months ago. He has a page where he answers questions people e-mail in. Seems like a genuinely nice guy.

No more than GWAR is

Kiss was never a novelty act. They used the makeup as a means to an end. It got them tons of exposure, good and bad. Kiss made themselves big by playing places other bands wouldnt.  Instead of just playing in say Detroit, they would also travel up the road to a small place like Battle Creek Mich. Kiss always prided themselves on a great live show. Their main problem was capturing the energy and excitement of a Kiss show on vinyl. Hence Kiss Alive.  As for during the 80's and 90's Kiss had alot of great stuff come out. War Machine, Domino, I Love It Loud,. In 2K Physco Circus was a platnum CD along with a HUGE world tour.

BTW all you Mudvayne, Slipknot fans should be a litle more respectful to Kiss. They were doing thier acts 30yrs ago.

yah, i also don't see kiss as a pure novelty act. some of their earlier stuff, in particular, had great tunes, great riffs, great arrangements. they totally upped the ante as far as hard rock went.

for the record, though, they terrified me as a little kid. i remember the promos they had on tv ['see kiss LIVE IN CONCERT at the garden!'] and that blood would be flying from gene's mouth, and i just stood there aghast. same deal with alice cooper. then when i got the records and heard the music, i realized they weren't some dark, demonic band. they just rocked.

oh, and apollo -- i feel your pain. i wasn't into punk at all when it was big, and always felt alienated from the masses who were. just do your rock thing, man!

If you count 28 Gold and 30 Platinum records (including solo albums) as a novelty, well, sign me up ;D

Gene Simmons also "discovered" Van Halen in So. Cal. and either financed  and/or produced their demo for Warner Bros.

Destroyer was the 2nd record I ever bought, right behind Love Gun!

Regarding their novelty statusâ€"while I can see some parts that would be hard to not define as novelty, the general consensus seems to be that KISS was not, in fact, more of a novelty band.  I'll accept that.

Novelty or not, I just never got them.

Well they are an interesting phenomenon to say the least. I think back when they started you either loved them or hated them. There is a DC member who grew up with Paul in Queens and also ran across him later in the course of his recording engineering job but he has not posted in a while so I hope he is OK.

Anyway, I guess there are two ways to look at them. One is as a brilliant business vehicle for Gene Simmons and Paul Stanley and the other is as a rock band of the 70s.
They broke out of NY in the 70s when things were pretty much in decline and there were rotting buildings all around and garbage piled up really high. They played the same circuit as the NY Dolls who had some quirks of their own. I think they used the makeup and that other shtick to jump on the bandwagon with, and even go one better than the other more flamboyant groups that were out there and attracting attention like Elton John, David Bowie, and Alice Cooper.

I do think that they put out some pretty good material over the years.  I really liked Peter Criss’s drumming on the 1st three albums, I like the way he used open rolls and thought he played very musically. He does some nice drum breaks (nothing complicated but very musical) in the tune “Love Her All I Can” toward the end of the song.  Nice Grooves in “Theme from KISS” (instrumental) “Hotter Than Hell” “Parasite” and “100,000” years too.

Now I have read that NY studio drummer Alan Schwartzberg claims to have played on these albums. I don’t know about that but I do know that after Destroyer things got a little shaky. Players like Anton Fig came in to help out.

There was also a rumor that the ALIVE album was mostly recorded in a studio with live concert sounds added in. I saw Gene in an interview a few years ago and was surprised when he didn’t really deny it, so who knows???

I think their hype has overshadowed their musical abilities, although I think that after the makeup came off there was greater emphasis put on just selling records and bringing in Desmond Child and songwriters of that ilk.  Can’t blame them for that, many other bands have done that as well.  

 

Assuming your point is about dissing Kiss for makeup, Al Jolson has Kiss beat by 40 years.     ;)

I don't disrespect Kiss, but I do find their music phenominally tedious, and I'm a much bigger fan of both Jolson and Slipknot.  

I am both a fan off KISS and Slipknot, although I respect KISS much more as musicians. Just because of the way they dress, many people think 'oh thats just a way of attracting attention to themselves' but many people fail to look past the make up and leather platforms. KISS are geniune genius's when it comes to music. All three of their drummers have been spectacular, Gene is a wizard on bass, and I'll simply say 'Ace Frehley' and even the name radiates talent. This is why KISS are much less appreciated as musicians, people LOOKS DONT MATTER

I will say that I based my speculation on their actions that I've seen.

KISS is what got me into drumming. I said to myself " I wanna do THAT! " . I guess as of late they aren't as big for a few reasons. One they ome and go....so their farewell tour wasn't really a farewell at all. And with Eric Singer and Tommy Thayer in Ace and Peter makeup i'm sure it turned a few peple off...it did me. I think if they either gave these guys new images,and or went without make-up and made a new cd they would be very popular again. But thats just my view and take on the matter.

I wasn't much into KISS untill my best friend (whos fav. band is KISS) told me about the movie detroit rock city. It was pretty cool. I got some cds and now I like em. I knew more than neccesary about them before I liked them.

First off, I'd NEVER hug them.  (huggees?)

Anyways ... their St. Louis debut was at the local FM "underground" rock station's annual Kite-Fly, back in '73.  My friends and I didn't care much for them.  We really thought they were a joke.

I'll be nice and shut up now.

Detroit Rock City is hilarious! that was also my turn on to KISS. I like the original band, I tend to, just because I like the sounds of a band where no one is a "replacement" to someone else, and a group of people that have already done a lot.

I like KISS and own a few of their albums, but lets try to be realistic here. "Gene a wizard on the bass"?,,,,,,come on now. I like Peter Criss too and he's better than me with some innovative parts in some tunes, but,,,,,he and the band just never seemed to get any better as the years went by. I'm sorry, but I feel the make up and stage shows were there to keep the peoples interest as the music couldnt do it alone. Just my two cents.

Lets see...I heard of Gene Simmons and Peter Criss....I would suggest you get some make up dude!

With the Alive thing, It was recorded live and then they used some overdubs. Nothing unusuall most live albums do that.

I'd say KISS is the reason I started playing drums.  The first album I ever got was Love Gun as a 3 y/o kid in 1978.  

If you can separate KISS The Merchandisers from KISS The Band you will find a pretty fine rock band that wrote decent, catchy pop/rock songs.  As a drummer, I always found Peter Criss interesting but probably not influential on my playing so much as sparking my desire to do what he did.  As a guitarist, I've always enjoyed the interplay and harmony chording between Ace and Paul and I always thought their guitar tones sounded so natural to me.  They sound to me now like a great Anglophile rock band.  If they didn't have the KISS The Merchandiser side to them I believe they would be considered in the same breath as the NY Dolls as a critic's favorite and seminal influence.  I know power poppers like Gin Blossoms, Lemonheads, Redd Kross, Sloan, You Am I and others have acknowledged the direct influence.  I think those who would really dig that kind of rock & roll often get sidelined by the makeup and the stage show.  

That said, there is just something these days about Gene Simmons that feels so slimey.  And it ain't his tongue!  It just all seems really phony and motivated more about making $$$ than making good music.  I won't slight a band for making money because that's not a bad thing.  You won't catch me accusing someone of selling out.  But the object of KISS seems less about taking over the world with rock & roll than about padding their pensions.  I have a lot of recordings of this past tour and the Paul Stanley schtick is so tired.  The playing is haphazard and it just doesn't sound inspired to me.  Still, I feel like leaping from the top-bunk with a badminton racket (my pretend guitar as a kid) at the first strains of "Love Her All I Can" from Dressed To Kill.

Yeah, i've heard of Rupaul too, but what does that have to do with anything? I never once mentioned that I wanted to be known or famous. I just said that KISS will be remembered more for their makeup than their music. Sorry if my opinion differentiates from yours.

Ya I for one believe you where millions wouldn't  ::)



Truth be known I take pride in that.

Its all good. Hey i'm a Beatle freak and we all know the shlogging Ringo takes sometimes. Peace!

Couldn't tell you... i have no idea why no ones has heard of them.  I wasn't really a big fan of KISS until my dad brought me to a concert of theres a few years ago! WOW! Most amazing stage performance!

That's an interesting take.  I can't say I disagree with you on it.

Did anyone catch that show Gene did on VH1 where he tried to steal the idea of the movie School of Rock and start a band at a school in England?  He seemed more interested in getting face time than actually teaching the kids anything.

Mine too.  I think every note of that record (and just about every other Kiss record pre-1980) is burned into my subconscious.
Today, their music is almost painful for me to listen to, but man did that music have a tremendous influence on me as a kid.  I was a huge Ace Frehley fan and chose guitar as my first instrument.  When I started playing drums in middle school and high school, I think alot of it came naturally because of the subconscious influence of having listened to so much KISS, the Who, et al.

The KISS merch is WAY out there... they even had a car for a while, golf clubs I've seen, wine bottles as well. Dime from Pantera (God rest his soul) was buried in the KISS casket (alongside EVH's yellow guitar).

They do seem to have a real big hardcore following, they don't play small shows it seems.

I'll always regret not seeing them live when I had the chance, their live show seems unbeatable as far as sheer magnitude and frenzy. Besides, they made some tremendous records with makeup and at least some outstanding songs without. Paul was a very cool singer when his voice allowed.

Their live show certainly was a lot of fun.  I saw them in 77 and in 97.  My wife took me to see them in New Orleans in 97 and even she had a blast!  Not that she's a stick in th mud, she just doesn't care about music the way we do  ;)

Yeah, towards the end of the season the kids seemed to really dislike Gene, which made the show a bummer to watch. If he'd have tried to connect with the kids instead of hamming it up all the time, that show might have been great.

That's ok.. my ex-wife didn't know who THE BEATLES were, and she's 55 years old.

My friend had Dressed to Kill and that's when I heard the song Rock 'n Roll all Night for the first time.  That was probably 76 or so, maybe 77?  I thought Frampton was incredible then too.  Anyhoo!

I was in 5th grade.  It was like I had heard angels singing... I remember it vividly.  It was life changing.  Their album cover scared me a little but it was cool.

My parents hated it.  

I have a jean jacket somewhere with a kiss Army patch.  I think I still get into it... crap?  Where is that thing?  I wore it thru college even.

I like KISS, but I was a bigger fan of Alice Cooper.  When I think back now I remember Alice Cooper more for the music and KISS more for the make-up and pyrotechnics.

Me and my friends in college loved Alice Cooper so much (and Kiss and Ozzy) we had a cover band that just played those three bands!  We were pretty good too- in fact I should have some recordings of us on cassette back then!

We did Love Gun, Makin' Love, Billion Dollar Babies, I Love the Dead, Go to Hell, Detroit Rock City (we also did some Frehley's Comet "Rip it Out" and "Rocket Ride", Strutter (of course)...

and a few more (hope I don't sound like I'm bragging) but Alice and Kiss (along with Ozzy) were a big part of my drumming (that definitely is nothing to brag about!)

But I sure cherish those times!

RAWK Boouy!!!!

+1

LOL.

Hey, I thought you were "cool" man.  LOL

Very nice avatar Mudlark.

I maintain cool even when not liking Kiss.  8) ;D

Thanks, Felix.  Got the old digital camera out last night and took some pictures of my studio setup in the basement.  Certainly not on the level of your beautiful studio, but it’s a heckuva lot better than playing in a walk-in closet like I was doing in Louisiana.  I'll post some pictures later, I'm sure y'all can't wait....

My son loves KISS (gonna be 11). He asked a good question about them.


When KISS first started out with makeup on, and nobody knew who they were, did their parents or loved ones know that it was THEM doing it?

Good question.  I would bet the families had to know, though they were probably sworn to secrecy!  I think it would be hard to keep all the touring, recording, etc. from close family.  Especially as the group became famous, got wealthy and changed their lifestyles.

Didn't we know their names when they first started?
(those of us that read the liner notes?)

Felix,
My first exposure to KISS was also mid-late 70's (I was travelling playing top-40) from a 10-11 year old kid (you maybe?) who's Mom had brought me to met her boy cause he played drums.

He brought me up to the attic where he had a make-shift drum set created from tin pans and oat meal cartons. There on a little portable vinyl record player I heard KISS for the first time. It surprized me that I liked them.

 :D

I've always wondered what happened to that kid, I can't even remember what city. I have no doubt he is still playing drums.

I dunno, but I bet they covered their ears or left the room just the same.

:)

Was his mom one of your "disco bunnies"?  ;D  I had a drum teacher that went thru that entire era.  Great drummer.  Still lifts his high hats all the time  ;D ;D ;D ;D