Drummer Cafe Community Forum

I have a confusion about when is an appropriate time to use open (ie. clearly defined double-stroke based) and closed (i.e. less defined, buzz based) rolls to get the best result.

In my early playing I never really understood about double strokes and finger control so I used to play very poor 'doubles' by trying to bounce my sticks. Eventually I figured out there wasn't much future in this and now I think I have reasonably fast and controlled doubles. However, as a result of working on my doubles I have neglected to practice buzz style rolls and am not quite sure when and where to incorporate them into my playing, in fills etc.

For example, take Reeling In The Years by Steely Dan. Almost at the very start of that track, one of the very first fills (perhaps the first, just heard it on the radio) sounds like a couple of snare ruffs in a row.  Now, how would you go about creating this particular sound? Is it a 3-stroke ruff with the quiet notes buzzed/bounced or is it a very fast 4/5 stroke comprised of open doubles? Or something else.

Thanks.

If you mean the: da-dada-da, da-dada-da on beats 3 and 4 of the first fill, it sounds like he's playing with the sticking R-LL-R, L-RR-L.  That is, he's using a plain old 3-stroke ruff, NOT buzzing the sticks at all.

Usually, I don't hear buzzed rolls in modern pop or rock music, but they're fairly common in orchestral music and jazz.  I can't really explain how you SHOULD be incorporating them into your playing... you should figure that out by yourself.

No matter what, you should definitely get them down fairly clean so you CAN play them if you figure out what to do with them.

This stuff is much easier to demonstrate than talk about. Have you considered taking some lessons. Even one lesson to demonstrate some rudiments and discuss grip and stroke would be helpful. Even famous pros have been known to take a lesson or two on grip and stroke. We never stop learning.

I think buzz strokes are used a lot more than you would think. They won't stand out in the mix as much as an accented back beat, but if you listen closely you can hear them used occassionally as unaccented notes--which I refuse to call ghost notes because they are meant to be heard. When I saw JR Robinson in clinic, he gave me a whole new appreciation for what he was doing in the 2 & 4 songs. I never had really listened closely before. Then drummers influenced by funk or second line music are going to use them occassionally.