Drummer Cafe Community Forum

ok, who's got advice on micing congas?
which equipment and mics are preferred? placement? LP claw grips? or overhead boom mics? from the top or the bottom?
which mics are best?

Any mic that works well on the Snare drum or Toms will work on the Congas ... starting with SM57 all the way up to nice condenser mics like the AKG 414. A mic with a cardiod pattern is best, allowing you to individually mic each drum. You can use one mic between drums if you don't have the ability to mic each drum individually. Place the mics close enough to isolate the drum, but no so close that it will be in the way of your playing. Congas are unique in that we don't just play in the center of the drum, which is more common with drummers playing a Snare or Tom Tom.

Mic the Congas from the top, unless you are wanting some sort of special effect by placing a mic underneath. You're not going to get all the nuance strokes and articulate slaps if you mic any other way that from the top. The angle to start with could be the 45 degree angle approach, just like on Toms or Snares.

When placing more than one mic on a Conga set-up, be sure to follow the 3:1 ratio ... that is whatever the distance is from the mic to the conga, all other mics should be at least three times further away. Altering the angle and direction of the mic will help you if you can't follow the 3:1 rule.

LP Mic Claws ... I own them and have used them for years. The are very convenient, however, mics such as the SM57 seem to eventually slide off the clip during performances because of the vibration. I've had this happen to me in live recordings which is NOT good! I believe there is more vibration and impact from the Conga than a Tom or Snare drum ... simply because you are using your entire hand. The solution, if you want to use the Mic Claw, is to use a mic with a really good clip. The design of the SM57 and its clip is simply not made to be pointed upside down and remain intact. Duct tape could be used, but that would be messy.

Glad Bart jumped in early and grounded the thread with his excellent advice!

For clip-ons, I recommend the Sennheiser E604. They came in a three pack, so if you play three at a time,, there's a deal to be had.

Bart, curious if there's a Scientific explanation of the 3-1 rule for secondary mics..
No worries, I fully believe you anyway.

Dave

The 3:1 ratio (aka "three to one rule") is just a way to prevent interference between what two microphones are picking up. If two microphones are used and they are intended to pick up two sound sources, they must be placed at least three times the distance that either microphone is from its intended sound source.

Rather than reinventing the wheel, I did a little searching and found a nice explanation of the 3:1 rule (http://www.recordingeq.com/articles/321eq.html), complete with diagrams.
 

That's awesome!  Explains a few things...Thanks Bart.

God bless!

-Ron

thanks....all good tips....who's got some more recommendations for conga mics? which models work well? dont want to break the bank, but need to be heard above the plugged-in guitars and basses!

My vote: Audix D series with the D-Vice.   Compact, great sound, reasonable price. 

Yeah, I'll second the Audix D's. Affordable, and perfect, if you're micing from Booms. Still prefer the Sennheisers if you're clipping-on to prevent blead through because the rest of the band makes too much noise.
I played a nice acoustic gig with just two D2s and it was the best most authentic sound I've ever heard from my congas.

Dave

I am currently experimenting with an earset electret mike I built from a radio shack unidirectional element.  In my music room, I have recorded conga and vocals with this mike in a different configurarion using an LP claw.  As an earhook, it records a fantastic conga sound with the advantage of being a vocal mike too.  The unidirectional design is feedback resistant, and I'm continuing to test the uses.  I can hear a dramatic rejection of sound to the sides as I turn my head or body away from my monitors while recording them to test for feedback....so I'm expecting great things on stage.  I'll be using it in our practice studio, and live at the next gig.  So far, this is actually as good as the various mikes I've used for crisp conga quality sound, dynamic or condensor.  I'll keep you posted...I'm a little flabbergasted at this, frankly.  The total cost of making this mike is under $10, although it does require an external battery...you could make a phantom power setup in a small box if you wanted to, as the schematics are readily available online. 
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v398/ronboskz650sr/prototype0001-1.jpg)

God bless!

-Ron

I had this discussion before http://www.drummercafe.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,2/topic,13152.0

I finally went with the Audix D2 on congas and a D1 on bongo's. I use the LP Claw to hold them. I clamp them to the tuning lug which I think hold better then the rim. They sound great and stay put with all the vibration. I bought all of them on EBay, but watch the price's, sometimes you can get a better deal on sale somewhere else.

i'm using Shure Beta 98 D/S on my congas , they come with a multi purpose clamp and they fit on all different instruments
i bought them after a long series of comparisons and tests
i beleive they are the best mics available for conga and other percussion instruments because their range of frequency is very wide

Certainly may be a nice mic for you ... but by no means the "best" ... which is a relative term. Not to be picky with this, but I really dislike placing a label like "best" on something without more qualifications and criterias. Perhaps for the money or price range, in conjuction with the sound quality (broad frequency range), you feel this is the "best" mic for congas. I can think of numerous mics that are far better ... like AKG 414 ... which is a large diaphragm condensor mic ... but it also costs 5 times more than your Shure Beta 98 ... and the occupy a lot more space.

Bart, you say you don't like him using the expression "best", then turn around and use "far better" to describe AKG 414, but offer no criteria except that it costs 5 times more. How is it better?

Personally I've been using the Beta 98s too and think they sound good, both live and for recording. They do have a flat wide frequency range, are small and discrete. Only gripe is the rim mount does not clip easily on my conga's traditional cuban style crown, I've got to be careful it mounts firmly. The lower claw grip can slip on the skin wrapped ring.

I did give criteria ... sorry if you don't understand what that is.

Large Diaphragm ... going to be better than a small diaphragm at picking up low-end.
Frequency Spectrum is better on a AKG 414 than on the Beta 98. Pretty foolish to argue about that really.

To me, saying that something is better and giving some reasons why is very different that saying that something is "best". Just read the mic specs and most of this is pretty obvious.

bongo ... the ONLY thing I was trying to address was the whole "best" label. And I'm not suggesting that the AKG 414 is the "best" either. My point is that the term is relative and subjective. I think you knew what I meant when I was trying to bring correction and clarity. No need to try and make this any more than what it is.  8)

I only picked the AKG 414 as one example, because I own a pair of them. I would never take them out for a live gig; it would be complete overkill ... not to mention a huge risk.

the specs are way better for AKG you're right and i dont mean by that Frequency spectrum nor Large Diaphragm
because the last thing you want while playing is that your mics pick the sounds from other instruments and thats what Large diaphragm do in most microphones
but in AKG you have 5 polar patterns you can choose between them and for me the best is hypercardoid then you wont pick up anything
as for the frequency spectrum is like the shure not very different
but let say you want to use only 2 congas then you will put 1 AKG mic for that and you wont be able to put it in a hypercardoid mode because you need to pickup the 2 congas so we'll put it in a mode to capture both congas and here's the problem in capturing other instruments
as for shure you will need 2 mics which are in price of 1 AKG mic and you wont have problems in changing mode plus they are supercardoid so they only pick your instrument

finally i prefer the shure mic for live performances while i changed my mind on them concerning recording i liked the AKG specs for recording

You all are missing my point, which is that there is no one "best" mic for congas, but that's fine ... I'll let it go.

Bart
Sorry for muddling the issue, I can see your point; there may be no 'best' but you CAN rate stuff as 'better'.

As far as microphones go I do not have a lot of side by side comparative experience, so honestly could learn more.

Take a hypothetical: a large diameter and expensive dynamic mic, versus a high quality expensive small condenser. Lets say they both have similar flat decibel curves that range from 30 to 20K Hz. Then what characteristic makes one sound better? Or does it?

I know these small condenser mics are getting pretty good and out perform some of the old standards in dynamic mics as far as frequency range. But I can't hear over 15,000 Hz anyway, so does this upper end really matter? The lower end in the cheaper mics is 50-70 Hz and I think it makes a difference for the subs to go 30 Hz. Are any of these expensive dynamic mics going 10 or 20 Hz? The human can't hear that but I do believe we feel it in our body.

Anyway I should research this, pull out spec sheets, etc and learn something other than just speculate. I have no doubt there is something in the sound that warrents spending the extra bucks on a high quality studio mic, I just don't what it is. If the the frequency range is comparitive, then is it some quality trait like clarity?

Well ... I do think that when it comes to live music, often times the expensive mics are wasted because you just can't hear the quality differences in that type of environment. That's subjective too because it depends on the sound system and the venue. When I purchase mics, I always try to go for studio quality as much as possible ... but I also don't want to take my nice, expensive mics out in the sun or smoke-filled bars. You have to compromise, in my opinion, between cost, durability and quality.

Back to the original mention of the Beta 98 ... for the money, and for live work, I'm sure that these mics do a fantastic job for a vast majority of individuals. I've actually used these mics myself, but I don't own them. I've done the small diaphragm thing and already have other mics I can use that work for me. Most of the live work I do is being recorded ... as in live albums ... so the mic choices are a bit different. I'm sure that the Beta 98 would work well in a live recording environment too ... but I just wouldn't choose them for that. The whole 'large diaphragm mics accepting too much bleed from other instruments' isn't really a problem that I've run into. Perhaps if I was on a very small stage in a small club that would be a potential problem ... but everything I'm doing is where the musicians are spread out rather nicely.

I just pulled the Beta 98 spec sheet and learned you can flip the lower claw for a wider grip designed for cymbal stands. It works good now on my congas.

The frequency range of the mic is rated 20 to 20K Hz, but it's not that flat of curve.
Close miced the bass response is good down to 20 Hz, but the high end kind of peters out above 18K.

I get great sound with a single SM57 placed between the congas.  Quick, easy, inexpensive, and great sound. 

This past weekend I played a gig with 8 bands. one of the bands used congas & bongos. I put an SM81 overhead and it worked great.... So yes, condensor mics work well for them.    ;)

Well, you´ll always pick up a small amount of "leakage" when using more than one mic on the same instrument. It´s the same deal with the drums, it doesn´t matter where you place the mic, you will definately 'reduce' the pick up from other parts but won´t shut it completely. But it´s always essential to have a great microphone placing technique, so when you record the wanted piece, when you go to the mixing process you won´t need to do miracles with the table since the mic part was already done properly.

For studio recording, try some Crown CM-700 condensor mics. They are cheaper than the Shure SM-81 and EXCELLENT for percussion! You can sometimes find them on eBay for around $150.

For live work though, I think the CM-700 might be too sensitive and prone to feedback, at least it was when I tried it. Instead, I use a Shure Beta 87a ($100 if you shop around) or a EV N/D967 (maybe $125). The EV's are actually vocal mics, but work well for hand drums and have a huge gain before feedback which is always an issue when playing live. Both the Shure and the EV are supercardioids, which will help with feedback and other instruments bleeding into your drums. I'm not as crazy about the sound of the Audix D series, but they also work well and are nice 'n small.

Soon, I'm going to try some piezoelectric transducers. No mics, no mic stands, no feedback, no leakage, no holes in your drums, no fooling around. And cheap! These are just little ceramic disks that mount to your heads (or nearby) and turn the vibrations into a tiny electrical signal. The signal has to be fed into a very high-impedance input though, at least as high as your mixer's "instrument" input, but ideally into a piezo preamp which has an impedence of say, 3 to 10 million ohms. Around $60 for a single transducer and simple preamp. Has anyone tried this approach? I'm not necessarily recommending Shadow, but they do have some info on piezos here: http://www.shadow-electronics.com/start.html (http://www.shadow-electronics.com/start.html)

I was reading your posts on Mics for congas.  I started out using claws and dynamic mic Audio technica matched set of ATM29HE. $125 each drum mics.  They worked great very durable but you have all this stuff hanging off your drums ...plus you needed a mixing board.(more stuff to haul and set-up)  Ok fast forward I went to boom mics got a couple of the best EV 4088...sweet set-up but still not getting all the sound playing live with a full band. 
This is what I'm using now
Audix F-90's  $100-$125....small clip ons use on quinto,congaand Bongos...Still use one of the EV4088 on tumba with claw and goose-neck...great low end and allows shakers and other toys to be played under. 
All four mics feed into  a shure267 4in 1 out  phantom power device which drives the Audixs.  small 12"x12" box set on rack (table) that attaches to a Mic stand  threw som bells on it to so as to more efficently use.  Got the Shure  for $100 on E-bay.  I now have control with meter on my mics send one wire  to main board and have some local control too. Granted it's not as cheap as a couple 58s  but very clean and killer end product.  figure it will take me 8 gigs  to get my money back....And I'm not beating my hands into a blood pulp trying to get in the mix with a five piece band.

Bongojimi . . .

Interesting setup!

Do you have any feedback problems with the Audix condensers?

I ask because I tried two different small condenser instruments mics (Crown CM-700, A-T 5100) on a couple of occasions and they fedback so badly that I gave them up in favor of dynamics. Maybe it was the room or other factor.

What's your experience???

I have to admit...Obviously I'm no expert on Mics....But this has the best results so far.  Feedback is not an issue. The small patter of the adix pointed at the drum heads  doesn't leave much room for feed backor bleed over.  The system feeds into a recorder very nicely.

i ended up going with audix d2's on conga and quinto. i first put them on boom stands, but found that a little unwieldy, plus the extra stands were just more stuff to haul around. i then did what i wish i had done first which is attach them with lp claws. nice and compact. yes, i sometimes hit the mics with a hand by accident when playing, but it's not a real issue. i usually just plug into the pa system, but having a mixer nearby would be nice, although, again, more gear to schlep. i dont mic the bongos, but maybe i should. they seem to be pretty loud even without. if i add a tumba, which i would like, then im looking at another mic, i suppose. but i dont think i can fit three conga drums into the back of my toyota celica, though two fit in just fine.... 8)

Haha, this if a funny thread! Everyone's opinions and egos being challenged!


Condensor mics work well for just about anything! BUT, they are rarely the right mic to use, especially in a live situation. I have had great results with the following mic placement:

(http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/images/Perc1.gif)

Simply SM57's on top and Beyer M88's w/ reverse phase on bottom. I usually roll off the highs on the M88's and take full advantage of their killer low end. Mix the bottom mics up into the mix with the 57's on top and you've got a bongo sound that kills!

I dug out the claws for my gig last night and used dynamic mics again....instead of the audix mics I was playing up two  post earlier.  The really is no comparison to dynamic mics. I left the condenser mic on bongos cause it was so compact and didn't need much extra for them and it worked fine. condenser mics are more prone to "Feed-back"  and the volume and clarity was outstanding with the dynamic set-up.  The shure 267 gave me a bit of local control and I liked  having only one line to board.
your post  Musik got me rethinking and you are right. dynamic are the way to go.

And just to make sure we've covered all 87 ways to mic congas . . .

1. Use a Pressure Zone Microphone (PZM) strapped to the chest of the player. Is this a joke? Nope. "The microphone is carried by the percussionist as he or she moves from instrument to instrument." Advantages: totally portable, cheap, lightweight, little or no handling noise, and no mic stands to lug around. Read all about it in this excellent download from Crown Audio: http://www.crownaudio.com/pdf/mics/127089.pdf (http://www.crownaudio.com/pdf/mics/127089.pdf).

2. Forget about mics altogether. Attach a piezoelectric transducer either to the head or the shell and run them through a small on-board preamps or your mixer. Piezo transducers require a very high impedance connection for good response. Your mixer's "guitar" input *might* do it (Mackie's for example, are 1 M ohm), but it's better to use a proper peizo preamp which has an impedance of 3 to 10 M ohms. Piezo's are dirt cheap and the preamps are fairly inexpensive too (if you need one at all). And there's no possibility of feedback or bleed. Just plug 'n play.

P.S.: Have I actually used these methods? No, but willing to give it a shot. If you have, let us know!