DRUMMER CAFE - Community Forum

little background:
so id been using vater manhattens for a while now.  i liked the ball tip because of the extra bounce and clear tone of every hit.  with the new band i play differently than i had and im noticing all sorts of stuff that i want changed to suit the music.   im not 100% happy with my cymbal sound and im in the works of getting some istanbuls (not something to do quickly).  but what to do until then.  then i got to thinking about my sticks.  i picked up some vater new orleans jazz, which is essentially the same as the manhatten but with a teardrop tip instead of ball.  perfection.  its like adding the perfect eq to an already good sound.  a nice scooped mid sound, lots of warm lows with pleasantly sparkling highs.  im a happy man.

the point (or points maybe):
the tiny details and how they effect the sound matter.  i go to great lengths to study and research all this stuff because im a geek for it.  when i wanted to try new sticks i knew what to look for (and made a spreadsheet with all the options of sticks i like from various makers to bring with me to the shop ... going a bit far maybe, but there are just so dang many!) knowing the technical ins and outs of your gear can only make you a better musician.  youll have a better understanding of those tiny things that make differences and be able to exploit them to your benefit.  giving you more control over your sound.  and thats a good thing.

kind of a rant, kind of an experiential story, kind of a lesson.  i simply want to recommend that you search and read and share and explore.  about everything.  even if it seems alien to your interests.  dark and light are defined by each other you know.   there are no real rights and wrongs in art, but there are betters and worses for some situations.  and the old addage right tool for the job makes sense.  learn the tools.

agreed....I typically use ziljian's dennis chambers model(ball tip/hickory)for rock and funk gigs but change to the ed soph model (basically same stick but with teardrop end and its maple)for my jazz and afro-cuban gigs. Though the sticks are very similar in weight and size they sound totally different.

I'm with you. I didn't go quite so far as a spreadsheet (that's dangerously close to the day job for my liking) but having tried a spectrum of "standard" sizes I factored out the attributes I liked - width, length, taper size, material ... then looked for matches for all of those in a single stick. I ended up with Manhattans!

they make all those different sticks for a reason,they do make a difference to the feel and sound of your playing.Never believe the person who says sticks don't  have an influence on your sound.

and the cool thing is, you now know WAAAAY more about sticks than the kid who will sell them to you in the music store, so knowledge is a good thing.  

I actually was looking at Pro-mark 7A's a few months back because with my acoustic rock band the Vic Firth 7A's were too loud for rehearsal (they have no mics in rehearsal) and the pro-marks are lighter even in the same number.  While I was doing this, I overheard a father tell the store clerk that his little boy wanted to start playing drums, and didn't know what sticks to try.  This kid was tiny.  The clerk said, "Want to try these, they're 2A's?" and handed the poor kid these big baseball bat sticks.  Nothing else was offered, or tried.

After they left, I felt like a wimp for trying out 7A's, when he gave 2A's to this 8 year old...  I said to the clerk... "weren't those 2A's too big for that kid?"  

And the clerk said... "He didn't know what the hell he wanted."  

It kind of irked me that he steered the small person wrong at the very beginning of his musical journey, and had no desire to let the kid and his dad try a couple sized for comfort on the practice pads they had right in front of them.  I was also annoyed I didn't jump in and say anything.  

I just bought my 7A's just like Elvin Jones might do, and went home clerk-annoyed.

Spreadsheets for everyone!

when i started drummin the school teacher said everyone must use 5bs but iu didnt like them and i saw a whole rack of sticks there so i tried a few out and ended up witht the longest sticks they had. the teacher thought i was crazy but i loved them and used them.......till they broke a few weeks later

I like teardrop tips and the elongated beads like a weckle stick

I first pick a brand that feels good for the gig, never worrying too much about sound.  I use big sticks for loud gigs and smaller sticks for quieter gigs/faster playing.  

I stick with the brands that last the longest and are the most consistent.  

I really like Agner swiss made drumsticks.  They are made from american hickory (and you can get beech and maple) - that guy just knows how to make them.  They have never failed from bad grain and chip on the tip very rarely.  Very good wear resistance and straighter than most sticks.  Good prices too.  One of my little secrets that I'm sharing with you all *since you all share your little secrets with me*.

I hardly ever listen to the clerk at, say, Guitar Center.  

That's not to say that I won't try whatever stick they hand me whenever I wish to buy a new, different pair for my collection; it just means that their reasoning e.g. "I recommend these with a thicker shoulder so they won't break; Why don't you have a look at these 'jazz' sticks?" goes in one ear and out the other in favor of my extensive research and experience with what I like in drumsticks (which is perhaps barely eclipsed by that of 563). :)  

Also, always find a flat space on the counter, despite any fast moving the salesman does in order to discourage you (I've seen this!) and roll and tap the sticks.  Always roll and tap.  Always, unless perhaps you geniunely don't care about mismatched/warped drumsticks.  Some don't, I know, and I've no intention of putting those individuals down.

When I played alot of snare drum I was picky about sticks.  Now I don't care so much because every pair I picked/rolled was usually warped a little or has a different pitch.  So now it's like, who cares?  As long as they aren't too bad and even then I'll have them worn out in a week or two.  No biggie.

Vic Firth's sticks are made here in Maine.  There is a local shop that get's seconds and puts their name on them.  I can by a brick of 12 for $36.  They are not quite balanced right, or they have some discoloration, or the tone is a little too different.  I haven't had a pair that was warped to a point that I felt I couldn't use them.  Quality is always pretty good, but at that price I'm not in a position to complain.  Great sticks at a great price.  But buying them by the brick, you don't get to tap and roll.  I'm pretty much in the same boat with felix.  

I'm more sensitive to the size and style of the stick.  For instance, VF 7A nylon tips are heavier in the body than 7A wood tip.  I like the way the wood tip are weighted, but when I'm recording I prefer the sound of the nylon tips on the ride cymbal and hihat.  If I gotta break out the lumber I like the 5A wood tips.  Other than that, I'm pretty much a VF kinda drummer.

And that post was made about a year and a half ago ... Ive just gotten worse since then.  

Im working a new spreadsheet for cymbals ... but thats huge and taking a while  ;D

Crap, I didn't notice!  Sorry! ;D

wow.... wayyyy back in the day.  back before dirt was dirty.


i like ball tips, but only when you chip two sides of the tip flat.  i really like teardrops, but i haven't pulled together the will to go buy some new sticks.

You really are a geek!

But then again, so am I....... ;D

I've found for me, Promark 5A Naturals (hickory, elongated oval tip), Michael Carvin (hickory, around 5A, small ball tip), Elvin Jones (hickory, around 7A, elongated oval tip) and Ed Shaughnessy (oak, around 5A, large ball tip) cover a lot of sonic territory.  The Carvins provide the lightest touch and great definition, while the Jones sticks have a woodier sound.  The Naturals give me step up in volume from the Elvins because they're a larger stick while still maintaining the same general sound.  The Shaughnessy sticks make the cymbals RING and make my maple drums loud and punchy.  That's some dense, hard, heavy @$$ oak!  Or, all this stuff could just be in my head....... ;)

I also have ONE PAIR of the Vic Firth Terry Bozzio Phase 2s, which are basically a 5A with a helmet shaped tip and a felt tip on the butt end.  I don't think they make them any more but they're fun and can generate a lot of power.

Last but not least, don't get me started on rods, mallets and brushes.  I shred the rods so fast I've started making my own!    >:(

i'm gettin kinda scared now, i like promark 5a's or 7a's that's about it. i don't roll them or tap them. what's the matter with me? help me joe i'm in serious need of an education

I buy mine by the 2 dozen (brick) also.  What's nice about that is that you get premium stix for 4 bucks a pair and they have not been exposed to humidity or other people.

If I buy open stix at a guitar suk or sam A$$ I always roll and tap and dry swing them with my right hand- thus weeding out any heavier or lighter stix.  I used to be really picky and then use the heavier stick in my left hand (old drummer's trick).  Now I don't even bother.  I don't play good enough were it makes that much of a difference anyways.

You can stil get dogs in those premium bricks though.  :'(

Warped and such...

I always break them open and check.

Sure if you play zildjians, promarks or vaters, you have to roll them.  

So how far out does a stick have to be out for you not to play it?  I don't roll my sticks very much, but when I do they are 9 x out of 10 perfect.  Hell I just rolled a beat pair of agners laying here on my desk- perfectly straight.

Not that I really care all that much to tell you the truth.

I wholeheartedly agree with Felix with respect to companies Zildjian and Pro-Mark (oh, do I ever), and maybe Vater—though I notice that they're quite similar to Vic Firth in that my primary rollings usually are found to be wasted effort.  Regal Tip sticks need a rolling, too.

I will usually stand for no visible deviation when rolling, but in rare cases (a particularly wobbly batch, I'm in a rush, etc.) I'll accept up to 1/16" of wobble as noticed from the tip when testing.  This is rare, though; I usually have the time (backed by my caring) to check so thoroughly.

Enough to wobble noticeably I guess.

If it's just slight, I'll let it pass.

I can sure tell when I'm playing and I have a "dog" in my hand though. Hate it.

I figure, I'm spending money on each and every pair, I might as well give them a 7/8s of a second roll before hand. And I'll take the time to crack open a brick to do it.

Vic Firth has the best QC from my experience.

Vic doesn't let many dogs out...

A psychologist might ponder if this was a way of avoiding certain issues.  ;)
To be serious, I think you're making too big a deal about your gear choices. You could have been writing/creating/recording instead of all this effort you've put into worrying about gear.

OK,
someone just pointed out I spent the whole day researching Gretsch kits I can't afford to buy instead of working on my music project.
But I didn't say I was perfect.  ;D

Incidentally, I'm with Felix. I'll use pretty much any pair of sticks as long as they're not as light as chopsticks.

Not at all.   I dont play every waking moment, and I dont force myself to write.   Which leaves me with time in front of the tv from time to time.  

While I think we're all in agreement that the player matters more than the gear, the right gear can enhance a players sound.  

By not learning and investigating your options, you are SORELY limiting yourself.   Which Im sorry, is just dumb.   I'll gladly use what I have, but that doesnt mean I'll stop looking for something better.

SOOOO ... I take time I have, when not playing, to research gear to improve my knowledge, and in the end my playing.   There is no bad here.

Does somebody ALWAYS have to get mean-spirited in these posts?