DRUMMER CAFE - Community Forum

Curious to hear what you all think of this. They made contact with me through the Drummer Cafe MySpace page (http://www.myspace.com/drummercafe).

http://www.myspace.com/buddyrichdrumcompany (http://www.myspace.com/buddyrichdrumcompany)

Bill Morgan, in association with Cathy Rich, has announced the launch of the Buddy Rich Drum Company, which will feature a complete line of drums, drumsticks, and accessories.

A recent press statement read: "Considered the greatest jazz drummer of all time, the legendary Buddy Rich exhibited his love for music by dedicating his life to the art of drumming. The Buddy Rich line of products has been developed with the same commitment and dedication to the excellence that Buddy personified."

My first reaction :-\ wasn't very positive, mainly because Buddy's name has been abused and used by so many people, groups and companies ... my immediate words were "great, here we go again." But since this is actually coming from the Rich family ... well, I'll just need to see the products before I can make a real assessment. It looks like their products will be good quality ... not just building on a historic name ... thus living up to the standard.

For more information visit www.BuddyRich.com (http://www.BuddyRich.com).

Apparently what was old is now new again (and there is money to be made).  Good product or not, it feels like nothing but a moneygrab.  For better or worse, I equate Buddy Rich with Slingerland much in the same way that I equate Jimi Hendrix with the Fender Stratocaster.  Imagine if the extended family of Hendrix decided to form a new guitar company and produce their own signature line of Jimi guitars? I will be forever the cynic on this one. I dont think anyone will be able to convince me that no matter how sincere the press releases may seem, that this is nothing but a disengenuous moneygrab built upon the shoulders of a giant. 

one mans opinion...Bob

I know how strong our emotional attachment can be to our legends and the icons they are associated with (almost on the same level as dealing with religious icons). But instrument manufactures are businesses - I've purchased some "signature" items just because of the name on em (I'm a little more careful now).  Slingerland disappeared and then came back via Gibson - was this a moneygrab, is it more legitimate, is it still a good product?  I think the Rich family has every right to use the name in promotion of a business enterprise - I just hope they do it right and make a quality product and company.  A great company with great products could be a wonderful legacy to Buddy's name. 

Mmm... I dunno.  There was a brief mention of the company in a recent MD Magazine, my reaction was "someone's trying to make a buck off of Buddy Rich's name.  I can't imagine there'd be a huge surge in sales for something like this.  There's already a ton of drum companies out there - ands they're cannibalizing each other.  Even though there's involvement from the Rich family, there's obviously no input from Buddy.  If I were a real Buddy fanatic I'd rather buy drums from the companies he endorsed.  Nevertheless, I'm curious to see the quality, fit & finish of a set in person.

Next up. . .  the John Bonham Drum Company.

Nicely said Dave from Chicago.  Nothing new here in that drum Companies have realized there is money to be made off of a name.  Slingerland released the Buddy kit a few years ago-Ludwig released the Amber Vistalite Bonzo kit, and Dunnett built 100 Bonham Stainless kits.......Premier released the Moon kit......Im holding out for the Ludwig "Johnny Carson" kit!

But this Buddy thing is just kinda strange in that this is the 1st attempt at actually making drums by a company the person (albeit deceased) never used in life!  Pretty gimmicky to me-

There was a set of them sitting in the lobby at the M.D.drum festival.
They looked like a quality drum set. The finish was really nice, and the hardware looked to be of good quuality.I didnt spend much time looking them over,but from what I saw they looked pretty good.
Now I am wishing I had taken a few pictures of them.
I would imagine they are made by an already in the buisness company,then badges and heads with the Buddy Rich Drum co. name affixed.

 Ok, I posted, I guess this one is dead now too.

I would be interested in seeing their drumsticks.  I was told by a couple of members here that the Vic Firth Buddy Rich model has only its unique taper in common with the stick Rich actually used.  Apparently his usual stick was much thinner.

I'll just make one comment here:

Once upon a time, there was a person named Elvis Presley.  There are still many people making money by using his name today.

Last I heard, Elvis is still dead.

Maybe there is a similarity here..........

Perhaps P.T. Barnum was right.

JMO,
drumz1

I guess I just differ in that I believe if Buddy Rich started today, he would most likely play and endorse a different brand and that would be the one I'd want to play, not the one he played decades ago.  I'm not a big fan of "vintage" sets whether Bonham, Rich, Moon whoever. This may sound like blasphemy to some but there are a lot of great sets out there and in my opinion they are for the most part much better than the kits our hero's played.  I don't think the best way to honor their memory is by reproducing their kits, I think it's doing what they did: break new ground, invent, create.  If the Rich family can do some that and make a buck - Hallelujah!  If they fail, I'll give em credit for trying.  I just hope they've done their homework and have enough capital to fund the startup all the way through because it will be very tough breaking through into the crowded drum market, it's gonna take more than the name to be successful.

I agree.  I think the best way to honor Buddy's memory is to keep playing his music.  Make sure kids starting out are exposed to his playing.  It's not really about the drums.  It's about the man and the music he made.

Although the opinions and feedback represented here is only a very small segment of the drumming community, it does seem that a vast majority of drummers agree. I trust that the Rich family did some research before jumping into this.  :-\

We are only a few months away from the 20 year anniversay of Buddy's death. Seems strange that the Rich family would only now be introducing these products. If they have ambitions of perpetuating Buddy's personal desires and interests in the drum gear they are not making available to the public, you'd think it would have happened a long time ago.

Sorry, I have to agree, it seems like nothing more than a marketing stunt ... and I personally have little interest in the products. Like others, anything that Buddy used can be found in the companies he endorsed or the actual vintage gear. If they are planning to introduce new products, never seen before, having Buddy Rich's name attached to it just doesn't make sense to me.

Bottom line is they can do whatever they want, and more than likely have done their research. I just don't think their products will do very well. With that said however, I wish them much success in their endeavors.

Nah, not blasphemy.  Your opinion.  But....better in what way?  Hardware?  Almost certainly.  Sound?  Completely subjective.  I've been underwhelmed by both new kits and old ones.  To me, age has nothing to do with the playability of a kit, unless it's in some kind of disrepair.


Dan

Yep, this is opinion, not a scientifically proven fact but I'm convinced that what's available today is better in just about every respect: hardware, features, manufacturability, cost, and SOUND and specifically sound reproduction (live or recorded).  I base this opinion on the difference in what I heard at shows and on recordings 30 to 40 years ago compared to today so it also depends on what era we're talking about.  Speaking of Rich, his career spanned so many decades with so many changes if you want a Buddy Rich set you have to ask which one - the last one he played?  Yes, there are a ton of "underwhelming" kits out today but that doesn't change the fact that there is a lot of quality product out there. 

Amen!!!

OK! Let me get this straight...
The Rich Family has a chance to further secure the future of Buddy's descendants. (Speak up if you wouldn't want this for yours.) 

I'm certainly doing everything I can to secure the future of my Daughter and her perhaps her children and beyond.  Budddy certainly sacrificed alot of family time for him(I'm sure he enjoyed playing just as much as we do now) and us to enjoy his talents.

Some may not like/support the decision or its timing, but it's his Heirs decision(rightfully and legally) to make.  Remember we don't and won't know what instructions Buddy left his Heirs.

I just hope its a good product worthy of the Rich name.

My piece said.......I'm out !

Color me naive, but maybe the Rich family is trying to perpetuate the Rich family name for drumming's sake, not for easy money.  For us in the DC, Buddy Rich is the most enduring name out there, and it needs no boost from a new product line.  But for those who are coming after us, their biggest heros might be named Tre Cool or Tommy Lee..."Buddy-who", they may say when they see this new line of drums.

I could be wrong about that assessment...but nonetheless, if the product proves itself to be a true world-class instrument, it will get noticed for the right reasons.  Hopefully that will be the case.  Otherwise, the family will smear his legacy.

I like the idea of playing the kind of drums that Buddy Rich played -- but like others have said, the drums in question depend on the era and the manufacturer.  Still, I much prefer seeing his name on the badge, rather than another company issuing a "nostalgia" kit (ala for Moon and Bonham).

I bought one of those kits about a year ago to add to my collection. Some of the last to be made. It's a good sounding set of drums.

Here is my two cents worth. My cousin Tiger Meazell ( Alto sax for, Billy Joel, Richard Marx, Sade, Michel Bolton, Phil Woods, Duran Duran and many more) contacted me about this and I in turn contacted the company. Tiger is very close to Cathy and the Rich family and was with them a few weeks ago. They are very excited about these drums. By all apperances these are going to be first class drums Buddy would be proud of and are in partnership with the Rich Family. Tiger is endorseing them and I trust him. Although I exclusively play Vintage Ludwigs (Elvis) and Slingerland drums I will give these a try.
 
Sincerely
Danny Meazell

http://www.myspace.com/nickdiesinthrees (http://www.myspace.com/nickdiesinthrees)
Can't believe thats buddy rich's grandson

And the legacy lives on ...  :-\

I know this is judgemental and maybe i'll catch some flack but god his grandson looks like a scenester...i wonder if he kicks ass his band has some crappy live recordings up, sounds like every other horrible hardcore band out there.

(http://www.drummercafe.com/images/stories/pasic/brkit.jpg)

The Buddy Rich Drum Company has a booth here at PASIC. We'll get some shots and report on our findings. From what we've seen and heard thus far ... opinions are not very positive. I personally haven't had time to check them out yet.

Well, they are tuned tuned tubby.  Shells have no glue rings.  I didn't mind the kick and all the hardware was DW (pretty solid looking).  I had no real opinion yet of anything else.  I'll try and do some shreddin' tomorrow.

I haven't really kicked them over and even then playing a "buddy rich" kit is kinda humiliating to me right from the get go.  I keep thinking "I am not worthy" when I hit them them.

But I think they are well made and I don't see why they wouldn't suit someone's needs very well.

I don't know why people should even impressed with the idea, buddy isn't even alive his wife is managing it and while im sure shes a great lady, shes not the one being hailed as the best jazz drummer of all time...buddy is. So I don't know why her name as a managerial position should make anyone assume that these kits will be good, unless im mistaken her biggest contribution could maybe be that they don't mispell his name...maybe im out of line...i don't know.

I don't think you are out of line and I doubt if any of us (at least here on the cafe) expect that the drums will be somehow magically stamped with the spirit of Buddy and make one play better.  It is a fact of life however, that branding and name recognition is a big part of marketing.  I also don't think the Rich family make's any claim to having drum building expertise BUT they are very plugged into the business, know the people, etc.  I give them a decent chance of succeeding in making a nice kit since many manufacturers outsource the shells, hardware and even a lot of assembly.  Unfortunately, most start up business don't survive.  I've forgotton the statistic but something like one in five make past the first year.  If they don't have alot of capital and marketing savvy to go along with the name, even if they make a good set, they won't make it. 

If that's true, then you should grab a set as a collector set....It will be one of the 1st made. I'm not going to knock the family for taking the risk. I think Buddy would be honored that his family is trying to stay involved in the music industry. For me, I'd love to play them and see if they are worthy drums. I'm not a fan of his grandsons' style of music. But that has nothing to do with how well a drum is made. I know from my own personal experience how easily a startup business can fail. I started my own business with nothing but $20 in my pocket and a desire to be self employed. I didn't make it rich, but was in business for over 25 years. Craviotto was a musician before he made drums and now he is one of the premier snare builders around. I would love to see and play a set before I made a decision. But hats off to the family and company for the effort amongst stiff competition. The jury is out in my book.   :-\

Regardless of the family connection, these drums would carry more weight for me if Buddy had actually played them and given his stamp of approval.  And that ain't gonna happen.  That being the case, they're simply drums with his name on them.

I always seem to get it wrong when "drum tuning shorthand" is used, but I'm interpreting "tubby" to mean "low."  If so, that would seem very strange way to present a set of drums meant to be affiliated with Buddy.

I won't speculate on the intentions of the family, but speaking purely about the matter of the drums themselves, I'd be far more interested in them if there was something unique about the drums - if they harkened back to methods and materials of drummaking that haven't been in vogue in years.  Something along the lines of trying to recapture the magic of the old Slingerland Radio Kings.  (In his final years, if I understand correctly, Buddy was using a set of Radio Kings that had been restored by the folks at Eames.)  I'd be more interested if the mission statement were something along the lines of, "In his later years, Buddy never quite found a kit to match his old (fill in brand name and model here), and with these new drums, we have endeavored to recapture the magic of those old designs" - using three-ply shells, etc., etc., etc.  (FWIW, I'm pretty sure that Keller will make just about anything you want, within reason, if you order enough product).

(Note:  just for the sake of clarification, the "quote" in that last paragraph is hypothetical, demonstrating what I hoped to find from the company's mission statement - my words entirely.)

However, based on the "My Space" page, that doesn't seem to be the case:


Well, they got the sizes right, that's for sure.

Between the MySpace text, and Felix's description of the tuning (if I am indeed interpreting Felix's description of the tuning correctly), then in my opinion they aren't going full-bore in trying to re-create the classic drums that Buddy's name evokes in the minds of most drummers.  I know that I have my own ideas what a "Buddy Rich Drum Company" should produce, but obviously, that's not my call to make.

(In terms of the snare drum...are they going to source Fibes fibreglass shells, camouflaged with the company's matching hardware and wrap so the snare drum will look like the rest of the kit?  If we're invoking Buddy, then let's take our cue from the master himself.)   ;)

cool... i might want to start saving some cash... hahaha

Well, I did play the Buddy Rich kit the other day. The drums are made in China ... and DW is making the hardware for it. Aren't the DW Pacific drums made overseas as well? My guess is that DW's asian plant is making these drums for the Buddy Rich Drum Company.

I'll see how my video footage turned out and post it here IF the audio is clear.

The kit does look like Buddy's old kit. I'm not really sure about the market for this kit. Seems like only a Buddy Rich impersonator would want this exact configuration.

I was originally thinking that the Buddy Rich Drum Company was going to be mass producing various kinds of drums and kit configurations. If it's only going to be the Buddy Rich set-up, then I think I understand ... but why make a company? Why not just have an existing drum manufacture produce the drumkit? DW owns Pacific, but has made it into a separate company so the quality between DW and Pacific is not compared ... at least that's my take on it.

Hi James.  Yes the drums were in a rock tuning for the most part although I guess if you were Buddy you could play jazz with them  :-\ ;D.  I was expecting them to be cranked up some more.

Bart, I'd agree that this seems a little odd if all they make is a "look alike".    How'd you like the sound, quality, etc....

According to the Pacific website, they're made in California:

. .  Pacific's all-maple line of drums are made in its own state-of-the-art facility in Baja, California and feature hand-selected all-maple shells, and many of the innovative features that have helped make custom DW Collector's Series® drums an industry standard.

Just a note to clarify.  Baja, California is Mexico, not the State of California, USA

Interesting. Well, the badges on the Buddy Rich drums are stamped "Made In China". So perhaps only the hardware is made/provided by DW. The hardware was DW hardware.

Si.  I stand corrected.  Gracias.

Hmmm, I hadn't heard the story about Buddy playing a camouflaged fiberglass Fibes ... Is that true? Was that when he was with Ludwig?

I know he played a solid shell Slingerland Radio King for years (like Krupa). I suppose there is NO chance these new Buddy Rich snare drums have a steam bent 1-ply solid shell?

I think it is all so cheesy this made in China crap and call it a vintage name. Same goes for the new Valje and Gon Bop conga drums ... they don't use the same wood, or skin ,or manufacturing techniques, they don't sound the same, or look the same. It is just a cheap a$$ money grab capitalizing on a name.

Fibes (another company Buddy endorsed in the 1960s, albeit briefly) mention on their site that Buddy used one of their snares while endorsing another company's drums, although they make no mention of camouflaging it with that other company's hardware:

http://www.fibes.com/shells.htm (http://www.fibes.com/shells.htm)

The one picture I know of off the top of my head (the "Rich In London" album cover) shows a Fibes snare drum which Buddy doesn't seem to be all to concerned about hiding it (check out the SFT strainer):

(http://www.malletjazz.com/cafefiles/buddyfibes_01.jpg)
(http://www.malletjazz.com/cafefiles/buddyfibes_02.jpg)

I'm looking for documentation of Buddy using a "camouflaged" snare - I've heard anecdotal stories of Bud Slingerland becoming infuriated when he saw Buddy using a "Slingerland" snare that had the Rogers Dynasonic snare system installed on it, but I haven't been able to track down a source for that yet.  When I find a bibliographical source, I'll post it.

I did find a citation, complete with picture, of a drum built by Bob Grauso (founder of Fibes) for Gene Krupa, built to look just like a Slingerland drum (stick saver hoops, Slingerland lugs, even the two drill holes where a Slingerland tone control would go), with WMP wrap, in the late 1960s.  (Picture and text on page 167 of Gene Krupa:  The Pictorial Life of a Jazz Legend, by Dr. Bruce H. Klauber, Alfred Publishing Company, 2005.)  This same page mentions that Fibes made similar snares for "other name drummers," but does not mention Buddy (or any of those other drummers) by name.

Buddy switched to Ludwig (or was enticed - depending on who you talk to :) ) during the time I was employed with the company.  He used all Ludwig stuff for every Chicago-area performance I saw during those years.  Perhaps he knew WFL Jr & WFL III might be in the audience so he opted to not use the brand X drums on those nights? 

Its time to contact the Mythbusters!

Yeah, all of the "contrasting snare drum" examples I've seen and heard of, happened during the Slingerland years.  In all of the times I saw Buddy on a Ludwig kit, he had a Ludwig snare to match.

I wonder if it has to do with the Radio King solid shell snare just not sounding as good as other drums? The only solid shell I have experience with is a DW Caviotto which I don't like as well as my maple multiple ply laminate Ludwig.

I need to track down those "Buddy Rich endorsement timelines" again - the "Slingerland" era I'm referring to was from around 1967-75, roughly.  Were they still producing "Radio King" snares in those years?  I'm not sure.  I know Buddy played a refurbished RK set in his last years, altho I don't remember offhand what snare drum he used.

The Buddy Rich Drum Company project has been in the works for years and the sources for the various products have been chronicled in Cathy Rich's infrequent updates on the Official Buddy Rich Website. www.buddyrich.com (http://www.buddyrich.com)

She states that the high end drums will be made by DW, and that there will be a lower priced line as well, made overseas. DW released a kit a year or so ago, with the ostentatious badge that is featured as an overlay if you click on the myspace link that Bart posted. The picture in this thread shows a badge that looks like an oversized clone of the Slingerland badge, and these may well be the lower priced kit that she mentioned.

The BR company is obviously not a startup manufacturing operation but is only a marketing
deal for drums either made to spec, or rebadged existing stuff.

Is there a need for it ? Maybe. There is still a market out there for the "four on the floor" kit in classic sizes and proportions, i.e. 14" kick drum depth, no power tom dimensions, BD mounted cymbal and tom holder, etc.  Although the younger generations may consider them dinosaurs, this setup is still being used in big bands, especially on the road.

The "ghost" bands (or rather the drummers of) of Glenn Miller, Artie Shaw, Tommy Dorsey, Count Basie et al are still using this configuration.

Why? The classic look likely has something to do with it but the configuration takes up minimal floor space, packs up quickly and provides the basic equipment needed to do the job. There are few choices out there for a pre-packaged four piece that fits the aforementioned specs. I went through a lot of time, effort and money to assemble my big band kit though I admit that as I was forming a WWII era tribute band, I wanted a 40's period look, which increased the difficulty. If I was looking for a new kit today, the DW version with the beavertail lugs would certainly fill the bill and would get serious consideration.

If you read through the forum on the BR website, it is apparent that there are a number of BR fanatics out there who will line up to buy anything with his name on it.

Roger

Looks like Slingy shell with stickchopper hoops and 3 pt strainer. No outriggers evident but I think I have seen a pic that shows the newer stle outrigger on the snare side. http://www.buddyrich.se/photogallery/stockholm86/c03-st.jpg (http://www.buddyrich.se/photogallery/stockholm86/c03-st.jpg)

Roger

Gee I would sure hope so, but you are not. I would think that any musician serious enough about their chosen instrument would be serious enough to know it's history and all the greats that played it before them. Unfortunately, it's mostly kids I know with this reaction. However, this lack of knowlege of the classic greats does not affect their killer skills. Hopefully they will gain this knowledge as the grow and mature with their instrument. I must confess that I was drumming for about 2-3 years (started at 12) before learning about Rich or Krupa. Too busy listening to the M. Taylors, D. Wilsons, R. Starkeys, C. Watts, etc. at that time. And it wasn't 'till my late teens before becoming aware of Web and Dodds. MY bad.

1) I guess we shouldn't assume a drum kit manufactured in China = a bad drum kit.
2) I personally think it's dangerous to assume a drum kit with a famous drummer's name attached to it = a good drum kit.
The jury's out.
It's a crowded arena and there are probably more interesting products for me to check out before I think about a Buddy Rich set I'm afraid.

The set I referred to on page 1 is a Slingerland BR kit, not a BR Drum Co. kit.