Drummer Cafe Community Forum

what is a floor tom really for? I dont see it used that much in fills. Like barely.  So I am wondering, because I play for a alternative band, but I was just wondering..is it better to use one tom tom or two? I know its a dumb questions. Im just asking what you suggest, because Im comfortable with both.

Use whatever you need to convey the music you want to express. If you don't need any Tom Toms, don't use them. If you need one, two, three, etc.; use what you need.

As far as the question as to why have a Floor Tom, because its not used ... I'll just say that you need to expand your listening practices. To say "the Floor Tom is never used" is a grossly over-simplified, erroneous statement. Perhaps the drummers or music you listen to don't use a Floor Tom, which is fine, but that is far from the norm when it comes to having the instrument in the set-up ... and then not using it.

Good response. However, I do not see "never" in original's post. He states "barely" and judging from all performances I've seen live and on video I would say this is correct.

C. Appice & J. Bonham are the 2 drummers I've seen utilize their floor toms throughout a number (percent-wise) more than other drummers. Might be interesting to get other opinions here. I'll vote that the floor tom is used on an average say .... 15% compare to the snare, kick & mount toms.

My apologies ... I was wrong. Don't know why my brain translated "barely" to "never", but it did.  :-\ I'm sure I'll be in for more surprises as I get older.

I can't say I've kept stats.  I just know that I set one up and I play it when the music calls for it.  However, If the goal here is to quantify(?), then the snare and bass drum should not be factored in.  They're certainly used more than the floor tom - and probably more than the other toms, too.

Another item to throw into the mix ...

The Floor Tom may not necessarily be a Tom with legs. Often times a mounted Tom acts as the Floor Tom. For example, I may use a 4-piece kit with a mounted 10-inch Tom and a mounted 14-inch Tom, but the 14-inch Tom is positioned where a Floor Tom would typically appear.

Thanks guys. See yeah, I watch the drummers at church, and at all these concerts I go to, and dont see them use the floor tom that much. The only time ive really seen the drummer at my church use it is when he hit both the snare and the floor tom at the same time, by the way is there a name for that?

And to make matters worse, Buddy Rich used two, count 'em, two floor toms.  Granted, he often used the second one as a 16" table for his towel (I'm not sure how many plies or what kind of wood he preferred for this), but when it wasn't used as a table it was used extensively in fills and solos.

He wasn't alone in his floor tom usage.  Steve Gadd, Don Brewer, Karen Carpenter, Paul Leim all come to mind, as well.  There are counteless others who use theirs often.

I would forward this question to Mr. Peart. (there are no dumb questions, just dumb answers like this one  ;D )


I cry everytime I view video of this.

Give me a break, im just a kid  :)


So is there a name for when you hit the snare, and floor tom at the same time?

Ok, here's a break / \.    ;)

Regarding a name for hitting two instruments at the same time, I don't think there is a specific name; you hit two three or four pieces at the same time often.  For some R&B, soul style stuff hitting the snare and tom on the back beat is often done. Some of the guys I play with call it the Al Greene thing. Us older folks know what I'm talking about.

Also, don't believe everything you see. For some styles of music, the toms are used little. For others, they are used much more.  It's not a matter of often, barely, sometimes. It's a matter of how it's used. 

Maybe drum lessons aren't as bad as idea as you think they are (http://www.drummercafe.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,2/topic,19808.msg224324#msg224324).

While in school, the band didn't teach me to use a floor tom much. Except in "dance band", then everything changed along with learning to play a set. Over the years I've learned to use my floor tom in many songs. Sure, many alternative players don't use one much. But many of them only use a small set because that's what "name with held" does. It's all a matter of "your" taste in music. My toms all get used in the context of the music. Granted, they aren't used as much as the rack toms are. But there sure are a lot of stick marks on them. It was the early lessons and very early rock and dance band which taught me the value of a floor tom. Now I would feel "naked" without one, even in just a 4 piece set. It's there as a tool to be musical..... Some guitarists like a 12 string, some 6 string. But take away a string and they will complain. Sure, they'll get through the song without it and miss a few notes. But they'll take a break right away to fix it. Same difference.... It's all part of using what drums you have as a note in the music. Example: There's a classical piece which requires a "triangle" 1000 measures into the music. It signifies a huge change and the start of a tempo change in the music. Miss that "triangle" part and the entire orchestra looks at you like you're scum. Why? Because it's their cue to what's coming up.... It's all part of percussion, and lessons will teach you to use the tools of the trade in the context of the music. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I'm glad to have both had lessons and a floor tom.    ;)

I don't have money for lessons. My drummer at church teaches me a few things, and another drummer I know has had lesson for a long time, has been playing for about 12 years now, and hes a real help to me. I just was thinking, and I couldnt contact any of them, so I asked on here, because I felt welcome to.

And by that post I didnt say that were a bad idea. I just don't have the money. And so there for I am going to continue playing no matter what because I love to. Even if I don't get lessons, Im going to try to be the best I can for a 15 year old kid.

Steve Jordan is one of the most recorded and well thought of drummers in modern time.  On a recent tour with John Mayer his kit was a kick, snare and floor tom, with a few cymbals.  To each his own, that's the beauty of what we do.  Use what's needed, nothing less, nothing more.

I refer you to the previously mentioned Mr. Peart, and our good friends at www.drummerworld.com

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/Neilpeartlimbo.html

After the fill from Limbo, about halfway through the video, he breaks down the Intro and various fills from "Totem" off of Test for Echo.  I think it's a great example of how a floor tom (or several floor toms) can be used.

Nate

Wow, Mr peart is really good. Thanks Nathan!  ;)

Whoah!  Can you imagine this youngster's response if he were turned on to a Rich (as well as countless others) performance??!!

My heart  feels good when a youngster learns, then appreciates a performance new to him. Takes me back many years when Ringo clinched it for me.

Hmm..I use my floor tom alot.I certainly don't use it significantly less than the others. I think if I had to eliminate one of them, I'd take away the middle tom (13" on my kit). But nobody touches my floor tom!
 Please consider saving for lessons then. You're old enough to get a part-time job. Skipping 2 movies out will pay for a lesson. Not buying junk/fast food will save $. If you get Christmas money from family, save it for lessons. I know it sounds like a waste of $ when you can learn it on your own, but you will NOT, I repeat, NOT advance with drums as quickly as you would w/ a good teacher.
 
robyn

You are welcome to ask just about anything here.  Don't worry if some of our replies sounds a little harsh - everyone here cares a lot about drumming and helping each other out - that includes you.  IF you can't do lessons now, (a lot of great drummers were self taught) just be more intentional about how you practice.  A lot of what you get from an instructor is The Plan they provide and The Direction for improving and the descipline (practice this and have it ready for next week).  You can get some of this from books, video, and online sources.  I'm basically self taught but for a long time I didn't really practice, I just played stuff I thought was cool or tried to duplicate what I heard.  I thought I was decent and could play a bunch of stuff.  After a while, I realized I needed to get more serious, so I got video's and books and started working through some basic stuff.  This opened my eyes to a bunch of new ideas, techiques, etc and helped a lot.  Then after a while (I'm talking years), I was able to get some lessons and man what a help.  Not only can you get some direction from an instructor but a good experienced instructor can give you immediate criticism and feedback showing what you're doing wrong or specifically what you need to do to overcome a problem.  I learned more in a few lessons than I would have in a year of working on things myself.  Don't be discouraged if you can't get the lessons right now, keep practicing and develop a plan for yourself and work it!  When you do get a chance to take the lesson, do it.  You won't regret it.

I do have a job.



I read everything I can, I watch many many drummers. I talk to drummers all the time, and they give me tips, and help me learn things. And I do practice, probably about 4 hours a day at the most. I just don't feel the need for a teacher if I have people who already show me what Im doing wrong while playing. They taugh me how to hold the sticks, and all the basics. And just watching them play teaches me alot. I see them do something, and I come on here to see what its called, and then am imspired to do it. Like lets say a rim shot, I heard my church drummer do it, and was so impressed, I just had to learn, so again I searched and searched for how to do it, and eventually learned.

Awesome, keep it up! ;D  Also, you migh want check out Barts on line lessons and his Video lesson option.

Thanks man! Im doing everything I can.   :)

Hi thisisoriginal,
The people at this forum are super friendly.
I think you'll have to accept though that people take your posts as they are written. You can't dance around the truth and change your meaning as you go along.


This is what you actually said:
"Ive tried lessons. Its not worth it. To me that is, I spend hours on end watching, and learning from drummers, that are teachers, and have had lessons, then I watch the ones without lessons, and they seem so much better, IMO, because they break out of that feels comfortable, now don't get me wrong, lessons do help, but its all for different kinds of people."

That doesn't say you can't afford lessons, but that you prefer the way drummers who haven't had lessons play. You also imply you get as much out of watching drummers as you would from lessons.
That might be true up to a point, but I think lessons would be great for you.
You'll learn to play properly and broaden your horizons, then you can decide if you want to play in a raw style or not.
I've been there myself.
I spent years studying drums. By the time I was 18, punk was the big thing. It wasn't cool to sound like you could actually play!
I eventually developed a style that incorporated raw grooves and energy and combined that with good drumming practices and technique. I can play a two hour, high energy show, no problem. Lot's of unschooled drummers flake out after 30 minutes, or suffer terrible muscle strains.
Floor toms.....
I've played a lot of alternative music. IMO, the floor tom is one of the most important elements. A lot of alt. drummers substitute the hi-hat for floor tom grooves. As has been mentioned, there is also a current trend for drummers to only have one tom, the floor tom (Steve Jordan, Questlove). I played a few alt/rock festivals this summer. Many of the drummers only had a floor tom, many were riding the floor instead of hi-hat. It's a tribal, jungle kind of vibe.
I use my floor the same amount as my other toms. If I play a regular fill, I often play a couple of toms and a snare in that fill. In that case at least one of the toms would be the floor. I also find it an effective practice to play 8th notes on snare and floor tom at the same time, like coming out of a guitar solo, or making a big entry into the final chorus.
Rock music of all kinds focuses heavily on low sounds. The bass guitar and bass drum underpin the groove. The floor tom can help to emphasise that if and when needed.

Let me clear this up, "I've tried lessons, and they weren't for me"  "I dont have money for it either anymore" MY dad is about to lose his job, and we are losing everything. I dont have time nor money for them now. I would try them again when I get money, and of course everyone with their little drumming shops wont offer me cheaper prices, so Im forced to learn from watching drummers, and learning by ear. And im fine with that for now.

OK.........

I think you got some useful info and advice on floor toms from most of the people who answered this post.