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I recently recieved this audition music for band and there is a few measures in the timpani part that confuse me.  There is these measures of 6/8 with eighth note groupings of 2 with a 2 above the notes.  So imagine 4 eighth notes in a bar of 6/8 with 2s above each 2 note grouping.  I don't understand how this is to be played.  like 1 2 rest 4 5 rest ????

You will basically play 2 against 3 or 4 against 6.

If you have a full measure of eighth-notes in 6/8, you could only have 6 eighth-notes right? So, if you have two groups of 2 eighth-notes in 6/8, and those notes have a number 2 over the two groupings, this means you are playing 4 evenly spaced notes in one bart of 6/8.

If you count 6/8 like this:


you would divide the beat like this:


which means you are counting sixteenth-notes in 6/8.

Then ... to play the groupings of 2 in 6/8 you would play as follows (the bold designates what you actually play):


Make sense?

Notice how you are able to play four notes that are evenly spaced out while remaining in 6/8 time.

Whenever playing duplets over threes (6/8, 12/8, etc.), I tend to modulate to 2/4 or 4/4 in my head. That way I can feel the duplets if my brain isn't working well enough to count it (and it usually isn't it).

It's always better to know how to count it, of course.

Personally, unless you are doing a metric modulation, I think that would be more difficult and dangerous ... especially for just one or two figures or measures. Counting in this case shouldn't be that difficult. You are just playing notes in between the pulses.

Bottom line ... do what works for you. My philosophy has always been, and always will be, if you can't say it, you can't play it. I recommend working on being able to count it, clap it, then play it while counting out loud. Doing this ... you'll own the rhythm and the feel.

I'm sure I used to count things out, but there comes a point where playing things like duplets in 6/8 becomes a process of hearing as you read it on the page. I try to stay a bar or two ahead, and when I see something like that that, I can already feel my body and hear in my head the tug of the pulse. Maybe in a more crystal thinking age (i.e. when I was younger), I could count that out as I played it at tempo, but my sight reading's taken a dive over the years. I do more anticipating, and you're probably right -- in a tight situation, it will get me into trouble. Perhaps I've just grown lazy?

I understand, but just keep in mind we are giving advice to a high school student. He needs to be able to count this out so he understands it. :)

There's a lot of things we take for granted. We've done it for years so we no longer have to follow the same procedure. When I drive my car, I don't think about each maneuver like I did when I first started driving; much of it is second nature now.

So my point ... someone who doesn't understand the groupings of 2 in 6/8, or anything of the like, needs to learn to be able to count this out. Once you get it, you don't have to keep counting all the time. The point is that you count and figure out how it should sound. Not doing this will allow the student to go through their school years not playing it correctly ... just guessing. When I was in school, I didn't know (and wasn't taught) how to play quarter-note triplets correctly. I just guessed, thinking "tri-pl-et" really slow in an attempt to get the three notes evenly spaced. That is ridiculous. There is an exact, precise manner in which to play quarter-note triplets; you can count them out ... it's just math.

That's where I'm coming from.  8)

A young person or beginner needs to learn and understand the correct way to play/write this type of thing. The only way to do it is learn the theory and the math behind it. Count!

What I've been doing for quarter note triplets is, thinking the regular quarter note pulse and trying to fill the quarter note triplet in those spaces... like thinking 1 trip -let 2 trip -let over quarter notes to add up to fill the space of a half note.

Is that wrong? 

Yes; it's wrong. You are trying to fill up the space without being exact. This just proves my point; you're doing what I did when I was your age.

Do me a favor ... talk to your band director and ask them to teach you the way to play this stuff. It's their job to help you. If they can't, then I'm more than happy to help. You can also do a little searching here at the Drummer Cafe; I know that I've explained how to count quarter-note triplets before ... but I'll do it again if need be.  8)