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MAIN LOBBY => Music, Musicians & Musicianship => Topic started by: Antman on April 05, 2008, 04:17 AM



Title: Bad rehearsals/Singer no show :S
Post by: Antman on April 05, 2008, 04:17 AM
Today has probably been the most depressing rehearsal I've had with a band to date. We just got a new singer 4 weeks ago (we jam once a week) after our old one left with no reason given, right when things were starting to get going. Bare in mind it's been something like 7 or 8 weeks since she left as well.

Now 4 weeks in and our new singer just plain didn't show. He's only made it to two other rehearsals previously, the other one he missed was forgivable because he sent me a message and said he had to stay in at work longer than expected. But today there was nothing. No messages or phone call or anything.

And to top it all off, 5 minutes into rehearsal our bassist gets a phone call, saying he's got a guitar student waiting for him that he's forgotten about. So there goes our rehearsal completely.

Basically, me and the pianist are now thinking we should pretty much start looking for a new singer. But I'm not sure if it's completely fair, maybe we're being too harsh because of all the other things that make it seem even worse. Like the way our last singer left us, the fact that me and the pianist have been at it for 2 or 3 years now, and we're sick of being messed around by singers. We just want to get out there and start performing. It's also made worse by the fact that we're really excited about how the band is sounding these days, we feel our songwriting is maturing, our songs growing more interesting and diverse, and we seem to be writing a new song every week. So we're dying to get out there and do something with it.

On the other hand, we sent him recordings of every single song we had (8, now 10) a couple of weeks back and he's written vocals to nearly all of them, and he's an amazing vocalist.

What does everyone else think? An objective opinion would be appreciated right now.


Title: Re: Bad rehearsals/Singer no show :S
Post by: New York Frank on April 05, 2008, 06:58 AM
My thoughts would be:

- Talk to the singer before making a final decision

- But I'd have strong, strong reservations.  Cancellations for work are a fact
  of life, and you Gotta take care of work.  But No Shows?  I have almost
  No Tolerance for that.

I guess I'd have a talk.  If the singer Definitely sounds convincing that he wants
to stay, I'd give him One More Chance.  But literally, One More.  Any other
No Shows after the talk, and I'd have to jettison him.


Title: Re: Bad rehearsals/Singer no show :S
Post by: Chris Whitten on April 05, 2008, 01:06 PM
On the other hand, we sent him recordings of every single song we had (8, now 10) a couple of weeks back and he's written vocals to nearly all of them, and he's an amazing vocalist.

In that case cut him some slack.
But discuss your disappointment with him and request better communication in future.


Title: Re: Bad rehearsals/Singer no show :S
Post by: Antman on April 05, 2008, 01:28 PM
Thanks for the level headed responses guys. Just what I need to hear to keep me from having the emotional knee jerk reaction we all feel like after today.


Title: Re: Bad rehearsals/Singer no show :S
Post by: Riddim on April 05, 2008, 02:46 PM
Assuming he's not dead or hospitalized, he appears to have some responsibility issues, and is not someone you can depend on.

If he valued your time or views, he'd have called and explained/apologized.  He has not. This speaks volumes. 

He's fired himself.  Time to move on.


Title: Re: Bad rehearsals/Singer no show :S
Post by: Chris Whitten on April 05, 2008, 10:15 PM
I entirely agree with the above (almost).
No more chances.
However, there can be the odd hiccup in personal relationships, especially in the beginning.
And as talented singers are IME harder to find than any other band member, I say make your displeasure known, but give the guy one last chance.


Title: Re: Bad rehearsals/Singer no show :S
Post by: boomerweps on April 06, 2008, 02:17 PM
Tell him flat out "no call, no show" is unacceptable in a band project, same as any other job or endevor. Provide him with phone numbers, especially cells you may have with you. Wasting others' time is very inconsiderate. To be a decent vocalist performing in front of others, you have to have some EGO, understandable. Doesn't make you irreplacable.

You can always cruise Kareoke bars  and open mics for a new vocalist. There is SOME decent wheat in all that chaff.  The non-drunks at least have the guts to sing in front of strangers. ;>)

Boomerweps


Title: Re: Bad rehearsals/Singer no show :S
Post by: Paicey on April 06, 2008, 02:46 PM
Unless he was abducted, arrested, or run over by a train i never liked the primadonna stuff of the no show dudes . Like you guys had nothing better to do with your lives than wait for Mr. no show cool guy. No phone call, no email, no text message, no nothing. Why do musicians do this crap!, buncha self absorbed, non sensative Mr i dont need to inform these guys punks! >:(.


Title: Re: Bad rehearsals/Singer no show :S
Post by: drumnut1 on April 07, 2008, 09:40 AM
Tell him flat out "no call, no show" is unacceptable in a band project, same as any other job or endevor. Provide him with phone numbers, especially cells you may have with you. Wasting others' time is very inconsiderate. To be a decent vocalist performing in front of others, you have to have some EGO, understandable. Doesn't make you irreplacable.


Boomerweps
I completely agree with this boomerweps.  I have better things to do with my time then sit and wait on people that don't wear a watch and can't remember what day it is. The guy's I play music with drive a fairly good distance to get here and with rising Gas prices and I usually throw something on the Grill for us to eat, I have no tolerance for "NO CALL, NO SHOWS". If you can put your finger in a glass of water and pull your finger out and the hole stays there, then you can't be replaced.  Most of the time the hole closes right back up and the glass of water looks just like it always did.  The group that I am playing for has no lead vocalist.  We all sing.  I can't stand the front man soap opera.  When the front person doesn't show the whole band is done. Bull Crap!!!!
                                     Nutty


Title: Re: Bad rehearsals/Singer no show :S
Post by: Antman on April 07, 2008, 09:52 AM
So far haven't heard anything from him...but the other night I checked his profile on a local music forum to see if he'd been online since I sent my email... not only had he been online, but he's put a whole bunch of equipment up for sale, some of which is a reluctant sale.

We're all a little confused. One of the reasons we chose him over another great vocalist who auditioned was that he seemed professional.


Title: Re: Bad rehearsals/Singer no show :S
Post by: JeffK on April 07, 2008, 11:26 AM
This stuff use to drive me insane, still does to a point, but I've figured out in my 40's that not everyone has the same level of interest that I still have in playing music. For some, this is an enjoyable pastime that happens when it happens, for others the drive for musical perfection can drive other band members away who do not share the same enthusiasm. I don't confuse lack of enthusiasm for lack of talent though.

If the singer can come into a show with one practice and nail everything, then I say be thankful that you have someone willing to stand up in front of a crowd and do there thing. If the person makes the rest of the band look like fools because they are not prepared, then I say it's time for that person to go. I don't let that happen twice!

We were just given notice by our guitar player that he was joining another band right before our big summer schedule is about to kick off. For us that means a good four months of Friday/Saturday shows almost every weekend. Now we have to work in a new guitar player. I'm not happy about having to spend the extra couple of nights a week to break someone in because my weekends are already filled with band stuff and no family time, but generally practice for me on the same three sets of music gets to be a little boring at times. I know the material in my sleep, but I still need to be at practice and work just as hard as I usually do. I know of no other way to play. Hopefully the new guy will feel the same or he will have a difficult time dealing with me, Haha.


Title: Re: Bad rehearsals/Singer no show :S
Post by: skinbeatergreg on April 07, 2008, 02:43 PM
Tell him flat out "no call, no show" is unacceptable in a band project, same as any other job or endevor. Provide him with phone numbers, especially cells you may have with you. Wasting others' time is very inconsiderate. To be a decent vocalist performing in front of others, you have to have some EGO, understandable. Doesn't make you irreplacable.


True dat!!!

As Donald said to Omarosa (twice!)...


Title: Re: Bad rehearsals/Singer no show :S
Post by: Chip71 on April 07, 2008, 02:59 PM
I've had this same thing happen to bands I've played in over the years. I'm thankfull it wasn't often. My comment to the other members of the band was, "Next!"  ::)


Title: Re: Bad rehearsals/Singer no show :S
Post by: Riddim on April 10, 2008, 02:38 AM

We were just given notice by our guitar player that he was joining another band right before our big summer schedule is about to kick off. For us that means a good four months of Friday/Saturday shows almost every weekend. Now we have to work in a new guitar player. I'm not happy about having to spend the extra couple of nights a week to break someone in because my weekends are already filled with band stuff and no family time,

Are you doing covers people can dance to, or are you in a Frank Zappa tribute band?

If the former, why can't he do his homework at home and come in when he has 20 or 30 down?  It shouldn't take that much time, if every one's done their homework, and listens, to coalesce an ensemble doing covers. You should not have to waste your time teaching him tunes he can learn off a CD or sound  file.


Title: Re: Bad rehearsals/Singer no show :S
Post by: JeffK on April 10, 2008, 10:29 AM
Well as much as I would love to play in a Zappa tribute band, Cincinnati is not a conductive or profitable place to do so, Haha.

Yes, we play covers that people can dance to. We have a three piece horn section as well, which adds to the difficulty of putting songs together. Our lead singer pay's to have charts written for the horns so all they have to do is come in and site read them. This really brings up a whole nother subject that I don't understand. If the drums, guitar and bass need to spend time listening to a song over and over to learn and memorize it, then why shouldn't everyone else?

I was told by the leader of the band that horn players are "wired" differently and view themselves more as guns for hire, eventhough they have been in the band for three years. The charts are there because we tend to do a lot of subbing as far as brass players go. Sometimes the gig does not pay enough for the horn players to make what they deem as neccessary payment for them to leave the house, which is BS, but I'm told that's the way it is. So a sub can just come in and read the chart and get through Peter gabriels sledge hammer or Bowie's lets dance or U2's Angel of Harlem, etc.......

I have found over the years in cover bands that everyone seems to hear songs a little different and knowing a song on a CD and actually playing live in a band context are always two different things.

BTW, the guitar players offer fell through with the other band and now he has decided he want's to stay! While this would certainly remove the extra work we were going to have to do in order to replace him, I'm a little gun shy about just letting him come back into the band like nothing happened. He almost needs to re-prove himself to me that he is dedicated to this band and will not leave in two months if the offer is reinstated. I think that's only fair.

We are auditioning another guitar player tonight just for that reason.

Thanks,
JK


Title: Re: Bad rehearsals/Singer no show :S
Post by: skinbeatergreg on April 10, 2008, 11:05 PM
It sounds like a converstaion regarding your expecatations is long overdue.  His return presents a good opportunity.


Title: Re: Bad rehearsals/Singer no show :S
Post by: Louis on April 10, 2008, 11:20 PM
It sounds like a converstaion regarding your expecatations is long overdue. 

That's the truth.  Everyone in the band should have the same expectations and levels of commitment.  There will be a lot less hard feelings.  Emergencies happen to everyone and a practice must be missed occasionally, but it seldom works out if one member is a hobbyist and another is working to make it big. 



Title: Re: Bad rehearsals/Singer no show :S
Post by: Riddim on April 11, 2008, 03:13 AM
Yes, we play covers that people can dance to. We have a three piece horn section as well, which adds to the difficulty of putting songs together. Our lead singer pays to have charts written for the horns so all they have to do is come in and site read them. This really brings up a whole nother subject that I don't understand. If the drums, guitar and bass need to spend time listening to a song over and over to learn and memorize it, then why shouldn't everyone else?

I was told by the leader of the band that horn players are "wired" differently and view themselves more as guns for hire, eventhough they have been in the band for three years. The charts are there because we tend to do a lot of subbing as far as brass players go. Sometimes the gig does not pay enough for the horn players to make what they deem as necessary payment for them to leave the house, which is BS, but I'm told that's the way it is. So a sub can just come in and read the chart and get through Peter Gabriel's sledge hammer or Bowie's lets dance or U2's Angel of Harlem, etc.......

I have found over the years in cover bands that everyone seems to hear songs a little different and knowing a song on a CD and actually playing live in a band context are always two different things.

BTW, the guitar players offer fell through with the other band and now he has decided he wants to stay! While this would certainly remove the extra work we were going to have to do in order to replace him, I'm a little gun shy about just letting him come back into the band like nothing happened. He almost needs to re-prove himself to me that he is dedicated to this band and will not leave in two months if the offer is reinstated. I think that's only fair.

We are auditioning another guitar player tonight just for that reason.

Thanks,
JK

Observations:

- Given that folks may play together differently than they do with a CD --  the bottom line is that if they really nail the parts at home and rehearse later, it's not going to take 2 or 3 nights a week for good musicans to make things work.  One learns one's parts at home -- rehearsal is where the ensemble tightens up what the members learned at home. 

- Transcription is a great learning aid, as well as a great way to enhance your reading (and enable yourself to accept better opportunities when they arise).  Why doesn't the rythm section chart out every thing it does?   Reading the arrangements a few times after transcribing them tends to burn the forms of the tunes into one's head as well.   This is part of doing one's homework, in my view -- I do this for all original projects I'm called for, and any gig where I don't know the material cold -- at least in draft form.    Then when folks rehearse, it takes much less time to get the tune right.  Also, if someone gets sick, a decent sub can read their charts and get the band through the gig.

If this seems like too much trouble, my guess is that the more successful of your competitors may disagree.


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