DRUMMER CAFE - Community Forum

Every time I set up for a gig, I always (out of habit) go out to the front and see what my kit looks like. Make sure the toms are straight, make sure my 2 crashes are at the same height, make sure a mic cord isn't covering up part of the 'Yamaha' on my kick, etc.

Then I think to myself what am I doing? Does it really even matter??? Am I being overly anal about this? Who cares what the kit looks like as long as it's comfortable and I sound good.

Just wondering if anyone else does this? Is having an aesthetically pleasing (to the audience) kit important to you? Or not?

I do the same thing when I watch myself play. Even on songs that I’m really feeling and really getting into, I still look like Charlie Watts when I go back and watch myself. I look flat out BORED a lot of the time, even when I’m not. Should I try to change that, or does it even matter? 

I'd be interested to hear what some of our professional touring guys have to say about this.

I don't really think about that stuff with the kit.

But, when I have played out in the past, I Do look at the overall stage after everyone sets up and try to tidy up.  Some people can make quite a cable mess, and I don't think that's necessary.   Some venues certainly don't want you making a mess. 

I do like a tidy playing area, but outside of that, I'm not thinking about precise heights and angles of anything.  As long as I'm comfortable.

I Do fuss a bit about - stompers.  I seem to have played with quite a few people who will stomp cables and other stuff on the floor.  You shouldn't lay a big heavy bin on top of cables.  That's just not too bright.     You also shouldn't Walk on my cables after I put them out.  Walk Over them, not on them.  :)     That stuff I Definitely notice.   :)

lol, ditto! I do the same rituals, ALL OF THEM! Then just when I get it right, I start over again. I will always see something I missed. (Obsessive compulsive disorder I guess). I think if you dont look good, or feel good you dont sound good. We also try to be more than musicians as well, gotta be entertainers, makes a big difference. Light shows, cool awesome well kept gear, fog machines, hair gel, deodorant all go well together. lol. I have seen guys though with old, crappy drums set up way crazy and what I would say not very ergonomic, and crooked didnt look like he cared for his gear, and was so fugly I thought geez he had to become a musician or else he'd never get any _ _ _ _ _! But man he killed the kit, sounded great so who knows.

From gig to gig, my kit usually looks the same, because I set up everything the same every time, unless there are unusual circumstances.  I will, however, go out front and (like New York Frank) look at the stage as a whole, to see if it looks tidy and balanced within the space provided.  That being said, I do occasionally step back and admire my drums.  I love musical equipment... the gear we all use to do what we do; the drums, the amps... some of those guitars are simply works of art.  So sometimes I just like to take a moment to admire those things.   But as far as the actual position of my drums and cymbals, the first priority is playability.  Is it where it needs to be to be?  If it looks good out front... that's a bonus, but not my first concern.

I care about how my set-up looks and feels behind the kit.  I stand back from behind the kit (sometimes) to make sure (for example) that my Floor Tom is level with the Snare, which is how I like it. For the most part, however, I do an "inventory roll-call" from behind the kit while I'm seated. I check for instrument angles, making sure that as I move from  drum to drum my sticks are hovering about 2-inches, parallel above the surface.

The only time I make changes based on what it looks like out front is when something looks really strange ... and making the change would not affect how the kit feels or how I play it.

If the instruments are clean, as opposed to dusty, there's not much else I worry about. I know it will look great out front, and on occasion I do check out from to confirm what I already know.

I do pretty much the same thing -- except I don't care about whether the brand name is showing or not.  DW and Paiste are not paying me to play their stuff, and I've never been big on displaying brand names or logos on my kit, my car, or my clothing.  We're so bombarded with advertising and commerce in this world, it makes me a little queasy when I see people adding extra Toyota decals (or whatever brand name) to their cars.  It’s silly, in my opinion.  But I digress!

Live music is an audio and visual medium, and I give attention to both of those aspects. Plus, like many here, I'm proud of my kit and I want to show it off!  I don't obsess over this stuff too much, though.  But yeah, I check things out from the front of the stage.

I often step back and look at what my kit looks like. Partially to make myself smile because I think the instruments I have are beautiful, and partially because it brightens the whole stage show. Every little detail counts.

Even if the general average audience member doesn't notice. The 4 or 5 drummers out there will notice, and they may appreciate the little extra effort.  They might even say something about it to you after the gig.  And thats how you know you're appreciated.

i never cared about it until someone snapped this pic:

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=2678
2875&albumID=0&imageID=24540223


made me think, 'hmmm...maybe i should pay more attention to this kinda thing.'

aw, crap. i was afraid it wouldn't work.


well you can go to www.myspace.com/debbthedrummer and take a peek at the gig pics. you'll see a rather awkward-looking yamaha kick drum logo.

My entire look changes on my moods.  It's part of the artform for me.

Pesonally I change my look all the time.  Saturday I'm getting my hair straightened before the gig.  Playing the black kit too and wearing T shirt with skulls.

Black Resos and slightly dirty cymbals are my trademark ;D

Not really.  I set up so that the drums are positioned for me.  Cymbals are positioned at heights and angles that make them easiest for me to play them.  I don't really care how that looks to the audience. 

That being said, I like them to look nice so, I try to keep fingerprints off the front bass drum head, chrome rims, and shells.  I try to keep cables routed in a tidy manner - not so much for looks, but for safety.

BUT - it's a gig, not a catalog photo shoot, so I'm not all Rain Man about it.

What I lack in talent I make up for in looks  ;D

Always play on your strengths is my motto.

I keep the dust off and make sure the shells stay protected as much as possible, but I don't position my drums physically to satisfy any aesthetic goal. I set them up like I want them so that I can play everything from a relaxed, comfortable position. I may be sacrificing the dramatic effect of 10' cymbal stands or whatever, but my body thanks me.

i dont see how you can NOT care what things look like...

so much of what you paid for in your drums is the overall finish and fit, for one thing. i just about swoon looking at those gorgeous green burst wood shells ;D

im kind of anal about things fitting together just right and looking right front and rear.

drumming is such a guy thing, with all the heavy metal stands and clamps and bolts and rubber. some speak of what they are 'running' for heads, like their drums are polished hot rods. and we know we care how our cars look, don't we? at least we who live in the sunbelt  do. 8)

The comfort of the kit is most important to me, so positioning of cymbals & toms for playability takes precedence over whether they look 'right' to the audience.

As for me, I look how I look, and try to dress as decently as my arm movements will permit.

There is one consideration I make for the look out front though, and that's to have a white or light-colored kit, so that the lighting refelcts on them for a more dynamic look. Dark drums tend to get lost onstage, and they also look smaller. Given that I really can't appreciate how the kit looks when I'm sitting behind it, a 'cool' finish isn't a priority.

Bermuda

Just to be clear, I’m not saying I sacrifice comfort for looks – not at all, actually. I’m ALL ABOUT being comfortable when I play, especially if it’s going to be a long night behind the kit (and when you play in a wedding band, most of them are….).

This is an even bigger deal for me since watching Bart’s ergonomic hi-hat video and reading the related thread. Very eye-opening.

But if one of my crashes is 2 inches lower than the other one….I’m going to raise it. It’s just one of those quirks I have, I guess. Then again, I’m the kind of guy who can’t sit in a room with a crooked picture on the wall without getting up and straightening it, so take it for what it’s worth. ;)

I am first and foremost an entertainer. Yes I'm a musician but its all part of the show.

I'm not one to hurt myself for a little bit of flash on stage and comfort is important, but look at famous entertainers in the past who were known for both music and appearance.  Kiss's costumes probably weren't the best playing attire, nor did Michael Jackson's dance moves help his pitch while bouncing around.  A large part of entertainment has always been flash.

A question that comes to mind is whether you're a background band or a foreground band.  Are you there for easy listening quietly behind conversation or are you the main act or the reason the listener is attending whatever gig?  Is visual important in your specific case? Some yes and some no.

Yes, I am overly Anal about this. I like everything pretty much the same everytime and I have been told that I am a bit over the top about it but that is just me.
I also feel like I can play any configuration but if it is my gear and I am doing the set up for me with my gear I can get picky.
                           Nutty

 
Yeah, I like to come down after setting up and walk in the middle or back of the hall to see what the arrangement looks like - if I have time. But most often I just see what it looked like in the photos that might be taken by a friend or someone. And the same regards sound. You can never tell what you sound and look like unless a decent video is taken of the show. But you get used to this, don't you? :)
 

I'm not overly concerned with looks.
I will often check out my kit from an audience perspective just for fun. I like the look of gear on stage! But I don't critique my kit's appearance and fiddle with it.
The only thing I do take care about is crash cymbal height. I like them all to be similar heights. It's not only a cosmetic thing, but I worry that if one is a different height I may have to constantly adjust my playing during the gig and give myself an ergonomic problem.

 :)

Do I care what I look like when I play? Of course. I don't want to be up on stage if I have a bad case of bed head or something. ::) I feel if I want to be taken seriously as a musician by band members and audience members, I need to do more than just play well (though that is a major factor in being taken seriously as a musician). I feel I need to *look* like I'm taking what I'm doing very seriously.

Do I care what my drums look like? Somewhat, but it's not as big of a deal to me as how I look personally. I am a little obsessive about keeping my crashes exactly the same height, my toms being parallel and positioned perfectly, and having the front of the kick drum being parallel with the front of the drum riser or drum stage if I am on one, but other than that, I'm not TOO picky most of the time. Sometimes I can be, though. ;)

I do like my equipment dusted and set up neatly.  Same with the stage area.  For myself, while I don't dress to the 9's, I also like a neat appearance.  Even if it's just a gig requiring tee shirts and jeans, I don't pull the tee shirt out of a wrinkled pile on the floor and put it on. 

I always dread seeing a drummer dragging in equipment in the middle of winter while it's snowing out and all the drums are out of cases and the cymbals are on the stands already (and were tossed in the trunk that way).  After reading "The Drummers Path" I've become a firm believer in respecting your instrument. 

With the clothing thing -  I will say I was just at a gig where the drummer was a bit stocky - not a problem, but he was wearing just shorts.  No shoes and no shirt.  Sitting behind the kit he looked naked and I had a hard time dealing with that image, considering he was backing two very sharp looking female musicians.  Be comfortable, but have a little pride man!   ;D

Im cosmetics conscious. For the longest time i didnt like the look of my 22'' BD onstage opposed to my 24.  Its a fact, color affects mood, do a google search. My set up wont change positionally if it takes me out of my comfort zone. Ive basically got my 16'' floor tom behind my 14 because it rounds the kit out cosmetically. A two mounted one floor set up reminds me to much of a J.C.Penney catalog kit. The color of a kit can make or break a sale for me. Blue sparkle kits are it!.

When i saw Aerosmith recently Joey used two kits. One was a 4 piece blue sparkle kit with white DW lugs and it was flippin gorgeous! under lights. Blue sparkle tops the list but right up there are crushed glass, champagne sparkle, copper sparkle from Tama, and DW's green to natural Tamo ash. Certain drum colors can depress me. I am a color FREAK!!.

I set up my kits to play!  Once they are in position I do what I can to make them look as pleasing to the eye as possible.  Drums are clean, cords are routed in a neat manner and all fingerprints are wiped from shells, heads, and hardware.  Live music is a little like great food, it sounds/taste better if it looks good too! 

What ways do you like to rout cords/cables, Louis? I usually just wrap them around the mic stand before I plug them in. Is this how you like to do it or are there any other ways you know of that are better? Either way, routing the cables neatly really does help the overall appearance of the stage to look much better.

I love your simile about live music and food, btw!

A sub snake will make a world of difference.  Either way the cables should be routed neatly.  If using stands, consistency in wrapping helps.  Typically on a boom stand i wrap twice on the boom and then let the cord hang down beside the stand.  The cords are then grouped and routed to the snake head.  I think it looks unprofessional when cords are heaped all over the stage. 

This is gonna sound dumb, but what's a sub snake? Is it one of those little boxes that you plug multiple XLR cables into (like where you use one for the drums, one for the guitars, etc.)? I'm sorry; I just don't think I've EVER heard the term "sub snake."

I learn something new every time I'm on here...it's great. :)

I have to agree with this.  It cleans things up nicely.
                         Nutty

Well said, and I agree completely. I definitely care about how my kit looks. Everything has to be comfortable, but I have most definitely been known to sacrifice 100% comfort for something closer to 90% if I feel that it will improve on the look and image I'm going for on stage. I will, for instance, never have a crash right in front of me, because it might obscure my view of the audience and/or band members in front of me (and vice versa, I want them to be able to see my stupid drummer faces too).

I play a standard five piece (10 and 12-inch mounted toms with a 16-inch floor tom), because it's what I'm most comfortable with. However, that also means that I'm very aware that my kit can very easily be made to look like that generic catalogue or "novice" setup. For this reason alone I know that I will probably never be 100% comfortable if I set up my toms on a kick drum mounted tom holder, because I don't want that look to my kit. I'm not proud of it, but I know that when I see drummers with that "standard" 5-piece setup (unless we're talking about house kits and the like, obviously), I really do tend to label them as "novices" right away (even though I've been proven wrong time and time again). I have no idea if a non-drummer (or non-musician) would ever notice how a drum kit is set up, but I don't really care. So in these cases, the look of my kit actually affects my comfort level when playing, even if the setup itself might be 100% ergonomically correct and comfortable.

So, yeah, I will never place anything in a directly uncomfortable position just for looks, but I am willing to make sacrifices up to a certain point if I feel the improvement in looks is worth it.

Did that make any sense at all?

Having played in the Army band I became very aware of my look to the audience. I agree with Bermuda that lighter colored drums look bigger when playing out doors. I also agree with Louis that mic cables and snakes need to be neat so there isn't cords all over the place to trip over. I generaly dust off the drums before the gig, and dress appropriate for the place I'm playing. I try to look decent but like "Chip" so I don't overdress the people I'm playing for. Something special requires my drums and myself to look better, but not as such that I look out of place for the gig I'm playing. I will pick my gear used and size of kit to be right for the gig. Some bands require a different look than others. So I do my best to both fit the gig and the players involved. Bottom line, it's importent to me to just look like "Chip" and sound my best for both the audience and the band. I now use zip ties or velcro to secure cables more than tape. Cheaper than tape and looks good as a professional. But you can't beat duct tape to keep things secure to a wood stage.  :)

Talking about cords and stage clutter, one of the coolest shows I've seen was John Mellancamp and he had a stage with no clutter at all.

All the mics and instruments were wireless, the monitors were under crates in the stage, the believe the drums mics were wireless as well. The whole stage was clean looking. On top of that everything was a beige color...the mic stands, the drums, the cymbals stands...it was the best stage set up I've ever seen, it was all about the people and the music. I thought this is the way to go.

This (http://www.audiopile.net/products/Stagelink_snakes/PSX-8/PSX-8_cutsheet.asp) is what I was talking about.  You can plug all your drum microphones into it and then it plugs into the main snake.  It keeps from running many cables across the stage and is long enough you can run it upstage so nothing shows. 

Yes, I care very much for aesthetics.  Of course the most important thing, mentioned numerous times by others, is playability and comfort.  I always have that stuff worked out way ahead of time and using a rack is a big bonus because everything stays the sames.  Adjustments are in fractions of inches.  When I'm all set up and have made sure everything is where it's supposed to be and everything is comfortable to play then I do like to look at my setup and the overall stage setup from the audience perspective. 

I find that reviewing videos is very good for critiquing yourself.  I have made many adjustments in my playing and performance from what I observed myself doing.  What looks good as well as what sounds good.

 
BTW (as for looks), how do you move when playing on stage? Do you do any spectacular movements?
E.g. I usually have two crashes on the left and two on the right, just to reach one comfortably at the end of any fill - but I sometimes feel like crashing one with a large and fast movement of my hand on the opposite side of where I end a fill, just for the sake of the show.
 

Definitely. I play in a hard rock band, and for those big rock songs I definitely go for the big arm movements, both for the backbeat hits and the big crashes.

two separate issues being discussed:

Clean, sharp stage environment:  Absolutely. minimal cables, short runs, clean polished well cared for equiment etc?. Absolutely.

Perception of my drum kit to the audience:  Ah, no.  If when I sit in the seat, everything is exactly where I want it, and it sounds the way i want/need it to sound, then the kit looks like it looks. Color may vary, but, as for changing the setup to please the a particlar segment of listeners? No.

then again, my job IS to sell beer.  Bob

genious, I am definitely going to use that.

I'm not a fan of the whole ultra clean "hide everything you can" stage look. I LIKE seeing players do their thing with their gear, and their cords, and stands. If a guitar is using five guitars - LINE 'EM up by his amp. Don't a roadie - hand delivery them from off stage.

Same bit with keyboard players - using a whole rack of modules and synths? For me, don't hide 'em under the stage and sit there with a single midi controller - while again some keyboard tech does all the setting and re=patching off stage. I loved seeing Keith Emerson moving around his thousand patch cords or watching Chick Corea wrangling four or five instruments with RTF last week.

For myself with drums - I just believe the audience is there to watch me make music - with whatever tools it takes  to do that. And set-up the way I need them set-up to best play the music. So I have no problem playing mis-matched kits if that's what serves the music best. In fact, the fact that the floor tom or one bass drum or whatever is a different color/type/brand than the rest of the kit just makes it more fascinating to the audience - "Hmm, what's deal with that odd colored drum? Oh wow, it really DOES sound different than the other drums".

Form following function - not the other way around. Put it the other way around - leads "all that gear is distracting", then "all those backing musicians are distracting"  and you end up with a George Michael's tour where the band spent 90% of its time playing behind a black-out scrim - so as not to "distract from the visual focus of the stage"

I think people want to see behind the curtain - that's why they are there. To see it done before them.

anyway - my 2 cents...

David

I'm with you Dave, if you got it use it.  ;)

Great post, David, I completely agree. I especially like the way you word this paragraph: