Joe
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« on: July 26, 2005, 08:02 AM » |
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When did the paradigm shift from not mic'ing the hi-hat cymbal (instead allowing it to bleed into the mic' used for the snare drum or some other convenient microphone) to, well, mic'ing it?
What are some good examples of recordings which feature both situations in which direct mic'ing the hi-hat and allowing it to bleed is employed?
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Bart Elliott
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« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2005, 09:19 AM » |
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I think it would be hard to say exactly when it become popular to mic the HiHats.
The purpose of mic'ing the HiHats, as one my guess, is to give more control over the individual instrument. It's sort of a waste to mic the HiHat if you don't plan on positioning the Snare mic so that it's not taking in the HiHats as well.
Even if there is some mic bleed, which is a guaranteed occurance even with the best mics and placement, mic'ing each individual instrument allows the engineer to capture, EQ and effect each individual instrument to a greater degree.
If you don't mic the HiHat, and hope to capture the sound of the instrument through the Snare mic, you may lose the balance you desire in the mix if the Snare levels are reduced.
Personally, I just like the HiHats to be captured by the overhead mics ... which not only gets the Crash and Ride cymbals, but the entire kit. The reason is that I balance or mix the sound myself as I play ... meaning I play each instrument in the set-up so that acoustically it's already mixed.
I think what it all boils down to is control. The more control you have over each instrument, the greater your ability to produce and mix the drums exactly the way you want it. If you don't mic the HiHat, then you have to live with how it was picked-up by other instrument's mics.
I'll have to think of some really good recorded examples to reference. Some early examples of not directly mic'ing the HiHat would be something like MoTown. There's a room sound quality to the recordings when the HiHat is picked up on the Snare or overhead mic. Unless you played on the track, it can be difficult to know if the HiHat was close mic'ed or not ... simply because the drums were mixed really well.
One final thought ... I have to say I'm not really into the sound of close mic'ing in general. I know it has to be done if you want real control, such as controlling the ambience, but just about ANY instrument sounds different up close. The way the HiHats sound with your ear inches away verses several feet away is a big difference. I like capturing the sound as the audience would perceive and experience it ... away from the instrument. You have to have a great sounding room as well as top-notch gear, including your instrument(s), in order to pull this off ... usually ... so not everyone can do it and get the results they want. Again, it's all about control.
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jokerjkny
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« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2005, 10:12 AM » |
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(...)
Personally, I just like the HiHats to be captured by the overhead mics ...
(...)
wow, and i thought i was the only one who thought like this... |
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Joe
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« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2005, 10:23 AM » |
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Well, it certainly makes sense as far as needing more ways to control the final product. And, while I like a variety of sounds, I do like the sound of hi-hats as interpreted by distant microphones.
Thanks!
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I'm not a particularly slow player, yet I don't play fast. I play half-fast.
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563
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« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2005, 03:18 PM » |
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wow,
and i thought i was the only one who thought like this...
You most definitely aren't. |
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felix
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« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2005, 03:32 PM » |
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I close mic my hats with a 57 underneath and have two overheads. I do this live and I've also done this in the studio.
Sounds great. Wish I had a Neumann small diaphragm condenser- it would sound even better.
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Yaay!
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Chris Whitten
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« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2005, 06:41 PM » |
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I would imagine the technique of close micing (not just of hats, but other parts of the kit) emerged in the mid-70's, with the advent of 24 and 48 track recorders and the use of drum booths (and drier drum sounds).
I know Geoff Emerick broke ground by using 3 or 4 mics (rather than 1 or 2) on the later Beatle drum sessions. However around 4 or 5 years later, another Abbey Road engineer/producer, Ken Scott employed 32 mics on Billy Cobhams' drums.
Examples of smaller mic set-ups, with no hi-hat micing, would be recordings by Glyn Johns (The Who and Zeppelin). As I said, close and multiple micing came into it's own later in the 70's (and early 80's); Steely Dan, Supertramp etc.....
Problems when NOT micing the hi-hat occur if the drummer lacks the ability to 'internally mix'. In other words if he/she is thrashing the hats while tickling the snare......which is a trait MANY drummers are accused of. Also, if the hi-hat is predominantly bleeding into the snare mic, it makes the use of snare reverb problematic (resulting in mushy hi-hat).
I agree, it's a GREAT thing to capture a nice sounding kit with overheads alone. However, these days I'm becoming a fan of ALL drum recording techniques.
I love the energy and natural/organic approach of an ambient drum kit. I also love the crisp detail of a drier, close mic'ed drum set. Each approach has it's place and each has it's attendant problems the drummer must overcome. Therefore, I think it's worthwhile trying multiple and varying recording techniques from time to time.
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TheAudiophobe
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« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2005, 07:09 PM » |
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I've always had good luck with AKG 414's, as well as a few Rodes condenser mics. I've used the 57's live, but the 57 never brought out the sound I wanted from my hats - but that DOESN'T mean it won't work for ANY hats...
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« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2005, 09:48 PM » |
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You most definitely aren't.
and another, in general. on the other side of the glass, it seems like you spend an inordinate amount of time trying to turn the HiHat DOWN-- esp. w/ younger drummers who like to bash away @ it while only tapping the snare. For your basic, straight-ahead rock stuff, i don't think there's a need for it. BUT... listen to stevie on "superstition," or ?Love on "sacrifice"! the sound can work and emphasize the role of the hats in the groove; it's just like any other recording situation-- you gotta play for what you want to capture. Bart hit it on the head w/ the simple word, "control." |
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