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Author Topic: When you are too advance for the band...  (Read 1399 times)
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Louis
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« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2006, 08:50 AM »

So? Drumming is not all above being simple and straightforward.

No drumming is not all about being simple.  Drumming is about making the entire band and song look and sound good.  A drummer is part of a team and it takes teamwork to make a song sound and look great.  I always think more about what it takes to make the song work rather than what a highly technical player could play for the song.  
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« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2006, 09:39 AM »

Again, syncopated, you seem to be drawing life-long conclusions about drumming only after a year or so.  Do be so absolute.  Different songs, bands, musicians will dictate what you play...having the chops to be ready and play ANYTHING, is where the advanced stuff comes in, but knowing WHAT to play...that is where professionalism and experience (something that will come only with time) comes in.

Louis is on the money: "I think more about what it takes to make the song work..."  

This is the attitude that should be taken to enjoy what you are doing, even when it isn't "thrilling."  

Ask yourself this: "If completely advanced, experienced drummers are so capable to play all kinds of fills and solos, why do they choose to play the (seemingly) simple stuff on some songs?"

Check out Jim Eno (drummer for Spoon, great band) who rarely playes anything "complicated," but has a sense of which beats make the song.

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Dave Heim
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« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2006, 10:08 AM »


They still couldn't keep up properly expecially the lady; She always sings faster or slower than the tempo Sad Angry

Any idea how to get myself out of this nonsense situation or should I quit?
It is just not fun at all.

What is the use if the drummer can be so good and have all the ideas, but the band is no good?


Just my .02 cents. . .

Your job as drummer is not necessarily to be fabulous and have everyone follow you.  Sometimes your job is simply to support the music, keep time, and add color.  If the vocalist wanders, drags, or rushes - your job (as well as the rest of  the band) is to follow her.  If she slows up - you slow up.  If she suddenly goes to the bridge instead of the verse, you go to the bridge, etc.

If you're not having fun, then quit.  But before you do, make sure you're not making yourself one of those weak links by being so rigid and intractable in your playing that you're closed-minded and not listening, reacting and blending with the others.
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Benjamin8888i
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« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2006, 04:27 AM »

Quote
Just my .02 cents. . .

Your job as drummer is not necessarily to be fabulous and have everyone follow you.  Sometimes your job is simply to support the music, keep time, and add color.  If the vocalist wanders, drags, or rushes - your job (as well as the rest of  the band) is to follow her.  If she slows up - you slow up.  If she suddenly goes to the bridge instead of the verse, you go to the bridge, etc.

If you're not having fun, then quit.  But before you do, make sure you're not making yourself one of those weak links by being so rigid and intractable in your playing that you're closed-minded and not listening, reacting and blending with the others.
Those are the type of things that I really hate to do. Slowing down, playing the wrong things, playing in inproper orders etc...I WILL certainly quit IF it EVER happens again. I think the musicians makes a BIG BIG deal in music. The song can never sound nice if one of them goes out. The tune is SOOOOO important and so is the bass tunes. I noticed no matter how HARD I try to play well in drums, as long as the tune is out, everything sounds terrible! And ofcouse! A drumset doesn't affects tune!
So what I am trying to say? The drummer can work extremely hard, he will not be able to correct the (Out of tune, off key, off voice) band. I think this is true unless someone can prove me wrong.

Anyway, I still need to add;
I can't seems to find anything wrong with my playing since I also studied the beats they used at church (Where trained musicians are). I used the same style and beats as those drummers. And those beats works REALLY WELL at church!

Now I come to think of it (Instead of asking why they (Beats and fills) don't work for the novice band.), I figured out that those beats only works effectively when everyone is in tune, is keeping timing, and is singing accordingly. Then some styles will add color, not burst everything up. I will see how things goes.

There are some more experience musicians at my school who can play and sing correctly the songs. I remember the most recent time where I was the drummer for the more experience team of musicians. I did add my styles and syncopations to the songs and they did not go off. Everything ran smoothly. They knew how to keep timing (The tunes were correct) and that is the most important factor for me today. I shouldn't have created such a thread in the first place if I had knew this was the factor/problem.
I don't think it was my problem/fault afterall. I know I was keeping timing and playing the parts the way they were being played at church. The songs are the same with the same set of music instruments (Since this is a Christian school as well). I have come to a stage where I just need to play with people who knows how to play properly.
Anyway this thread has become a place for me to let out my fustration, or else I might just have to keep them.
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Jon E
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« Reply #24 on: May 23, 2006, 06:05 AM »

Quote
I WILL certainly quit IF it EVER happens again.

Just quit now so we can put an end to this thread!  Embarrassed

Look, in your musical life you will often be hooked up with some players that are less experienced/musical than you, and yes, it can be frustrating.  Know too that YOU will be that weak link sometimes as well.

I will agree with you that being out of tune is inexcusable.

Lastly, I'll remind you that just because you play the right notes at the right time doesn't necessarily mean you are playing musically.


(btw: is there perhaps a bit of a language barrier that may be making your posts sounds more "arrogant" than you intend?)
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Benjamin8888i
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« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2006, 06:09 AM »

Quote
(btw: is there perhaps a bit of a language barrier that may be making your posts sounds more "arrogant" than you intend?)
How come? I didn't meant anything like that. I just stated how I felt that's all.
I am feeling ashame now, to have stirred up all this. I will stop now.
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Jon E
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« Reply #26 on: May 23, 2006, 07:15 AM »

I didn't mean to seem like I was piling on.  I just noted that you are from Malaysia and perhaps something is getting a bit lost in translation??? Maybe??  (Pardon me if I'm being presumptuous)

No real harm intended.
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Benjamin8888i
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« Reply #27 on: May 24, 2006, 03:33 AM »

ALLRIGHT! Forget everything guys! Grin

Today I played with the band again and this time was with the FAST SONG!!  Grin
I started feeling confident and played confidently indeed. People around complained about the noise though Grin Cool I also realized it was all too loud Cheesy Shocked
I got my Pro-mark 5B sticks and started wacking away. I didn't expect everything to be so loud expecially I always accidentally create rim shots!! Grin Grin Grin
Honestly speaking, this particuler 5B Pro-Mark seems more like an extra 5B to me simply because it weight more and is thicker than other 5Bs Grin I really annoyed people today HAHAHA! (Pss I remember seeing the supervisors quickly leave and mann, the pastor also came in the last moment (Smiling)!).

Well, everything was well with me today. The only bassist and guitarist of today performing were not bad (Same people) and the vocalist seems to have improved. I had to stop a few times since other people always complained about the loudness. Still, the band needs more practice and I hope I don't need to wait more in the future for them to start getting in tune Tongue

Btw, I think the slow songs seems harder for them:D They are more complex for me in a way as well; they need some syncopations and long fills. As for the fast song, they seems to cope better and I mainly played the "Early Rock Style" with its fills type. Grin It was all very dynamic.

There are more complicated fast songs coming up. Grin

I hope I will be able to make it!! Shocked Shocked Shocked Wink
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« Reply #28 on: May 24, 2006, 05:52 AM »

Quote
Btw, I think the slow songs seems harder for them:D They are more complex for me in a way as well;

Slow songs are often "harder" for lots of people.  There is a lot of space between notes so there is a lot more space in which to play early and get off tempo.  Also, just because there is a lot of space/time in each measure doesn't mean you HAVE to fill every measure with as many notes as possible.

Keep at it.  Hopefully the band will gel.

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« Reply #29 on: May 24, 2006, 07:06 AM »

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Benjamin8888i
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« Reply #30 on: May 24, 2006, 10:17 AM »

Hey, I used to be playing soft Wink All the time!! Wink
I only recently learned to use the Germen grip, which makes me tend to hit rather hard Grin
And I also angled the snare so that rim shots are unthinkable and fairly easy to reach! Grin
Btw, I did play soft today after more complains came;D Grin
I just don't understand the accoustic set enough though; when I am on the E kit (Which is most often), everything requires more force. It is a different story with accoustics; I just have to bring my sticks down (Relaxed manner) and it will create a loud bang anyway unless I lower my sticks!

I need more training on the accoustic set, or else, technics are more or less the same. Dynamics!!
Ps. I planned to use a lighter and thinner pair of sticks after realizing the din lol.
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nudrum
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« Reply #31 on: May 24, 2006, 10:50 AM »



I just don't understand the accoustic set enough though; when I am on the E kit (Which is most often), everything requires more force. It is a different story with accoustics; I need more training on the accoustic set, or else, technics are more or less the same. Dynamics!!
Ps. I planned to use a lighter and thinner pair of sticks after realizing the din lol.

Try turning up your e set when you practice. Make it so when you hit it too hard for the acoustic set it will be too loud on  your electric set.

Spend your entire session on playing soft. Try everything you would normally do but do it quietly. This is very hard for me to do!!  Roll Eyes
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Benjamin8888i
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« Reply #32 on: May 24, 2006, 10:53 AM »

Sounds like a good idea, I will try it on next practice session:D
I believe I ever turned up the volumes alot before, I really have to hit soft I recalled!

UPDATE:

Today its Thursday and it was the last day of school Wink Cool
I didn't expect myself to get so excited today.

Well, today I took my chopsticks (Not a drum stick because of the sound!!) and decided to play Jazz on the drumset. I knew I wasn't allowed but I played anyway. Little did I knew how much attentions I had created. The band leader came out and she asked me to play it for her to hear (Because it was nice) and a group started forming around me. Now I really didn't know how it feels to be looked at by many;D But I actually felt quite nervous. Shocked Two of my classmate drummers were also marveling at using chopsticks for playing Jazz, they were somewhat surprised to learn that the sound quality can be so good. Wink (Some even thought Jazz what like that Grin lol!)

After I had finished playing, they all clapped and I was just so surprised they should do that Cheesy Then I and the band leader managed to get a go at the slow song (Which we were finding problems last time).
Then the surprizing thing happened; She told me that she would like me to play the method Hill-Song or others used where they would start off soft and gradually build up to the climax. Now, that was surprising to hear from her! Because? That was what I had always wanted since day one!! Now that she said it, and furthurmore stating how loud they can be at the climax parts and wanting me to play like that, I am just overwhelmed and excited (My dream come true. However, provided they can cope with it:P).
Well, I didn't play the way she suggested me to play today due to the fact that, many people were around and there wasn't a proper band yet to handle all this (passion & complication). But it has already been stated that I should play in this manner! Tongue Cheesy Smiley (Exackly what my church musicians are doing all the time! Tongue).

Well, I know they can improve and I will definitely try my best too Smiley

I did not mention a critical part though...I wanted to stop playing the drums and was just standing up to leave because I was fustrated with the orders when the band leader started talking to me. She told me that I must learn to follow the order of the band (That was before she told me the style she wanted.) She just doesn't want me to leave at all. She also told me things like I am the most suitable for the plans and and that the previous drummer just isn't suited for what she wanted. It was only at this moment that she told me what she actually wanted. And that was what I wanted too. Yet it must be reviewed only now. (I got a feeling she brought this up in the last minute).
All the time, the passion has been obstructed by off tunes and lack of practice. And I as a drummer couldn't go far or create the impact if no one plays well. In order for the passion to take effect, everyone must be prepared and in tune.

My practice time for the band has also been shifted from Weds to Mondays since she does not want us to clash with the dance team.
And now since it is the holidays, I will really miss those practice sessions for the time being (Two weeks hols).

Currently I am just happy to know how am I suppost to play. Anymore feedbacks will be most welcome Smiley.




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Jon E
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« Reply #33 on: May 25, 2006, 06:00 AM »

So I guess the bottom line here is.......

You talked things out with the band leader, you now understand what she wants, and you are capabale and willing to deliver what she wants.

Good for you.
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Riddim
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« Reply #34 on: June 05, 2006, 10:38 AM »

Are you playing drums, or are you playing music with the drums?

If the former, you'll be a a basement wonder.

If the latter, just give the music what it needs.
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Benjamin8888i
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« Reply #35 on: June 05, 2006, 11:50 AM »

Are you playing drums, or are you playing music with the drums?

If the former, you'll be a a basement wonder.

If the latter, just give the music what it needs.
I come to realize that I am playing for the music.
I am not suppost to be a soloist in the mist of the songs if it is not called for.
Ofcouse, it will be great if I am a superior solo type drummer as well, but I know I must strive to play for the songs.

Thanks for your advice.
Everyone needs to get pass the learning curve.
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SlimChance
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« Reply #36 on: June 06, 2006, 04:47 PM »

I've always loved Syncopated's posts.  Syncopated, you crack me up.  You are a real unique dude.

Slim
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