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Author Topic: Good Fills Variations  (Read 2008 times)
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nanboylim
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« on: October 10, 2002, 07:02 PM »

Ive just been playing drums for  few years. Everytime I play with the band, I always feel disatisfied and sometimes even get discourage to play after I left the practice room. I lack good fills and variations which I usually end up using thesame fills all the time.

Id like to hear  good exercises  and advices from you gentlemen.

Thank you.


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djarrett
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« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2002, 07:26 PM »

nanboylim:
Remember this: Attitude is 90% of anything you do.

When you feel frustrated ... step outside .... take a few deep breathes, ... and then start again.

When doing fills, remember that less can be more. I remember when I started and thought that 16th note fills were the bomb.

Then I started realizing that I was playing the same 16ths around the toms all the time.

Play less sometimes. One smack on a tom and cymbal can be more effective than fast fills!

Hope this helps.
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Mister Acrolite
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« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2002, 07:34 PM »

Try listening to some different music, too, so you have some fresh influences. On boards like this you may see some of us mention some drummers you're not familiar with. Go out and get a few CDs based on recommendations from some of the regulars here.

I've had many students who only listened to a few bands - I really opened their eyes by turning them onto some different drummers. There are a LOT of great ones out there, and so much to learn!
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« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2002, 09:52 PM »

Don't worry too much about what to play. Work on your timing and stick control, and then let your hands express what is in your heart! Try to not think about what to play, try to feel what to play!
Did you ever notice that some of the best drummers don't play anything flashy or fast, they play what seems to be the right riff at the right place in the right song.
Sometimes I feel like I do not determine what to play at a given spot in the music, the music determines what I play -- like it belonged there!

Like Mister_Acrolite said, listen to lots of different music and remember that music is ART. You must bring your emotions into play or you will continue to be unsatisfied with your performances. Put your heart into it, not your mind!

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nanboylim
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« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2002, 08:31 AM »

Don't worry too much about what to play. Work on your timing and stick control, and then let your hands express what is in your heart! Try to not think about what to play, try to feel what to play!
Did you ever notice that some of the best drummers don't play anything flashy or fast, they play what seems to be the right riff at the right place in the right song.
Sometimes I feel like I do not determine what to play at a given spot in the music, the music determines what I play -- like it belonged there!

Like Mister_Acrolite said, listen to lots of different music and remember that music is ART. You must bring your emotions into play or you will continue to be unsatisfied with your performances. Put your heart into it, not your mind!



To djarret, Mister_Acrolite &  DaddyO, I love to hear that! Thank you for your  fast replies gentlemen.


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Ratamatatt
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« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2002, 10:10 AM »

Nan,

It's more important to have 4 fills that you can play really well than to have 50 fills that sound like crap.  I think Gary Chester said that in the November issue of MD.  Or, was it Mickey Roker.  Anyway they're both legendary drummers whose comments on this subject deserve respect.

Having said that, I STRONGLY urge you to get Gary Chaffee's 2 videos on sticking, motion, rhythm, etc.  Gary Chaffee is also a legendary player/teacher who has tought players like Vinnie Colaiutta, Dave Weckle, Steve Smith.  These videos (based on the 4 "Patterns" books he wrote) will give you enough raw material to allow you to create new fills and groves to last the rest of your life.

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felix
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« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2002, 11:07 AM »

Well I strongly urge everyone to check out this vintage magazine exerpt from a 1987 "Percussioner Intl." magazine I dug up today featuring;

GARY CHAFFEEDig it huckleberry:

http://www.woolyinc.com/chaffee1.jpg
http://www.woolyinc.com/chaffee2.jpg
http://www.woolyinc.com/chaffee3.jpg
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« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2002, 09:07 PM »

i listen to a lot of folk music from the middle east and asia.  if i need some variety in my playing, ill try and adapt some of that to kit.  
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nanboylim
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« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2002, 06:56 AM »

Nan,

It's more important to have 4 fills that you can play really well than to have 50 fills that sound like crap.  I think Gary Chester said that in the November issue of MD.  Or, was it Mickey Roker.  Anyway they're both legendary drummers whose comments on this subject deserve respect.

Having said that, I STRONGLY urge you to get Gary Chaffee's 2 videos on sticking, motion, rhythm, etc.  Gary Chaffee is also a legendary player/teacher who has tought players like Vinnie Colaiutta, Dave Weckle, Steve Smith.  These videos (based on the 4 "Patterns" books he wrote) will give you enough raw material to allow you to create new fills and groves to last the rest of your life.

Ratamatatt


Ratamatatt,

Hey, thank you for sharing your ideas as well. Felix had also dig and scan his old archives and generously shared what he has.

Felix, I will be  trying this in my daily exrcises. Thank you for sharing. How I wish I was on this board here few years ago. Lots of ideas to get and things to learn from.

Mark563, good to hear from you too. Blessings. Grin
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sidereal
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« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2002, 12:51 PM »

Listen to guys like Jeff Pocaro and Andy Newmark who to me are masters of their use of toms. Particularly Andy. Here's a guy who uses two toms and you'd swear listening to some of his stuff that he's got at least four toms on his kit. I don't know how he does it.
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Mister Acrolite
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« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2002, 01:43 PM »

Listen to guys like Jeff Pocaro and Andy Newmark who to me are masters of their use of toms. Particularly Andy. Here's a guy who uses two toms and you'd swear listening to some of his stuff that he's got at least four toms on his kit. I don't know how he does it.


Agreed! Andy played on John Lennon's last album, Double Fantasy, and there's one song - either Woman or Watchin' the Wheels..; I can't remember which - where he does this slow fill that lasts for two bars. The overall vibe you get is that it's one of those descending fills, working your way down the kit. But he's only got two toms - how come he never runs out of drums? It's amazing.

And of course his tom fills on Carly Simon's Anticipation are bonafide classics!
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sidereal
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« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2002, 02:39 PM »

I got into Andy as a Pink Floyd fan. His playing on "Two Suns In The Sunset" on The Final Cut just knocked me out. The groove is so sweet, the dynamics... not to mention the weird arrangement of the song. I'm sure Nick Mason was scratching his head not getting it and Roger Waters had to bring in Andy! Smiley After that, he played on Roger's "Pro's And Cons of Hitchhiking" which (if you can get through the album without slashing your wrists Wink ) I highly recommend for brilliant tom playing.

That "Two Suns" performance really turned me around as a player. I started moving away from Bozzio and Bruford as principal influences and started appreciating the fine art of creative and supportive drumming. He became one of my favorite players. Soon after that I went into my Pocaro phase. Smiley Another thing about Andy... (sorry, I'm on a roll!) he has his cymbals mounted way high above the toms. His thinking was that this way he really had to reach for one, making him only go to a crash if it was really needed in the song. Less frequent "crashing" makes for that much more impact in terms of dynamics when you do crash.

Anyway, sorry to go off topic, but I just love his style. He's definitely a drummer to check out for creative use of toms.
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« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2002, 03:45 PM »

Another thing about Andy... (sorry, I'm on a roll!) he has his cymbals mounted way high above the toms. His thinking was that this way he really had to reach for one, making him only go to a crash if it was really needed in the song. Less frequent "crashing" makes for that much more impact in terms of dynamics when you do crash.

I'm a proponent of putting your crashes up high for similar reasons. Plus, engineers LOVE it, because it gives them so much more separation when they mic you. Anton Fig used to win the "highest cymbals in the world" award on Letterman, but I notice recently that they've come down a few inches.

High cymbals and low toms have one more major advantage - they make you visible to the audience. I got a lot more attention once I started setting up my kit that way. So I guess what I'm saying is "chicks dig it."  Smiley
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nanboylim
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« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2002, 11:12 PM »

Listen to guys like Jeff Pocaro and Andy Newmark who to me are masters of their use of toms. Particularly Andy. Here's a guy who uses two toms and you'd swear listening to some of his stuff that he's got at least four toms on his kit. I don't know how he does it.


Hello Side,

Thanks for sharing.

I got Jeff Porcaros old video by Starlicks and some of Toto's great tunes.  I wonder if he has some reading materials published before.

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« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2002, 12:30 PM »

Not much left to say the other guys haven't said.

A couple of cheap tricks.  Try moving something-a tom cymbal, whatever, or adding something new to your kit.

Also, if you don't already, try cross sticking.  Just cross your arms, and play the same old @$%# you usually do.  Suddenly, it's brand new!  Works real well for me.
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« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2002, 12:47 PM »

Just wanted to add my thoughts on this topic.

In regards to coming up with fill ideas, besides all the other great suggestions, here's a few more to give you some direction.

Get Ted Reed's Syncopation book and use the figures found in this book for your drum fill rhythms. All you need to do is pick a measure from the book, put it around the drums ... and voilà! ... you've got a cool fill. By taking just one of these figures you could spend hours coming up with countless fill ideas. BE CREATIVE!!! There are other books out there, but this is one that everyone should own in their personal library.

Another way I come up with fills is to take the melodic/rhythmic ideas from a song ... and turn it into a fill. It doesn't matter what style or music genre you use ... just apply the phrase around the kit, and you've got a happin' fill. Of course, the more syncopated the melody, the hipper your fill will be. You can even interpret the melodic contour by applying it to the drumkit. No one will know where you got the idea, so you don't have to worry about playing some Chopin piano line during your Heavy Metal gig. It works ... try it!
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« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2002, 03:08 AM »

For an example listen to "Bonzo's Montreux" on the Led Zeppelin album CODA. If your'e into Zep you'll identify the drum fill melody with whole lotta love and others.Bonham is having fun with this over an easy melody  Cool
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Ratamatatt
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« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2002, 08:17 AM »

Bart, great Idea.  That Syncopation book may be the most versitile book out there.

Felix, did those Chaffee links come from the Patterns books?

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rlhubley
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« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2002, 10:02 AM »

Felix,
Do you remember all of the cool fill ideas Pederson had in the Rock Drums class??  That class is chock full of great ideas.  

For you guys that didn't get to go to MI,  read up on www.learn2drum.com, I bet Tim has some cool lessons stashed away in the Past Issues section
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felix
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« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2002, 11:42 AM »

Yes I remember some of them.

Filling using groupings are great but your band has to be hip to what they feel like as well.  If you just pull out the heavy artillery it usually throws them the first time around if they aren't expecting it.

It was from an old percussion international mag.-the chaffee grooves I mean.
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