563
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« on: August 09, 2002, 08:49 AM » |
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alright gang. another heady debate topic from the desk of 563. so im reading the new modern drummer and the big letters thing about jordison and phillips and i get to this one: "it would be good to remember that part of drumming is being an entertainer" using slipknots masks as a catalyst, it brings up the idea the importance of the stage show. me? ive always been one to ignore or avoid that. ive always liked the idea of video projection as a replacement to lighting, but nothing along the lines of costumes or sets. as an audience member im there for the music. the showiness often detracts from that. as a preformer, id like people to be there for the music. barring the groups that are more of a theatrical event by nature (residents, blue man group, gwar, stomp) what do yall think of the "entertainment" aspect of a good simple band? take for example the hives. they have that "all wearing the same outfit" thing happening. to me it expresses an equal intrest in costuming as it does the music, and i dont see the point. how does matching highwaters and black socks enhance thier music? (on a side note, the mapex snares in the ad below this column are REALLY pretty  ) |
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Making bad art. Saying stupid things. Implimenting my master plan to be forgotten when I'm gone and forgettable while I'm here. The Luna MothmeTableland |
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terekete
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« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2002, 09:07 AM » |
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who wants to see a bunch of jerkoffs who can't even work the buttons on their shirts right on stage? As an audience member I pay good money to SEE a group--and I want my money's worth. So please, keep the zoobaz elastic-waist pants, black socks, hip pack, and keds at home, and put on something that you WANT to be seen in.
that might be a bit over-the-top, but I developed this vibe while being in a ska band... All these other bands would come out dressed either like punks or frikkin circus performers; we'd want to look like JB and the famous flames. There's a certain classiness that speaks of respect between audience and performer like that, and I honestly think it raises the bar of the performance; hell, JB used to make the band wear their suits IN THE STUDIO, so that they'd get the same vibe...
what sucks is that now I feel guilty when I wear jeans on stage.
I think this is actually a big topic... how much do you play the part? I have horrible memories of MD drumfests with a bunch of guys in zildjian T-shirts, sweatpants, and practapals around their knees. for God'ssakes, dress like an adult; and if you're performing, dress like a performer. Even by the end, tony williams and art blakey would look classy in a short-sleeved button down shirt and slacks, and joey ramone looked... well, like joey ramone (just as important) in black leather and black leather.
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felix
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« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2002, 10:24 AM » |
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We wore matching t-shirts, albeit different colors on our last gig with the band logo...except for one of the guitar players. It does give an added bit of punch I think, having a "look". BUT-
I see it like this. We have a manager that makes suggestions on how we look for a gig, but not everybody listens to her (although they should). There is so much BS in bands that just keeping one together is tough enough without having to dress each other. Most people don't like to be told how to dress.
Usually, I have found, that the better the band, the more the members will co-operate on all levels after a resonable amount of healthy debate.
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Bart Elliott
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« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2002, 11:02 AM » |
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I think it depends on the types of t-shirts ... like if everyone in your band was wearing a Drummer Cafe T-shirt ... I think it would be cool and quite appropriate!  LOL |
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My doctor says it's bad for my blood pressure if my mind is blown for more than five minutes at a time.
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felix
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« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2002, 12:17 PM » |
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I can't wait to get my shirt. Consider the cafe extraordinary since I NEVER wear swag (other than my own LOL).
I'll probably get a couple more around the holidays for some of my drumming buds.
BTW get back to work moving!
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MVanDoren1
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« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2002, 03:14 PM » |
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Just to add a little flavor to Felix's comment about the possible "matuiry" of better bands. A roommate in college did security for the university games /concerts, etc. He had all the backstage action. One night three bands were performing a concert I went to. REO, Survivor and a group out of St. Louis called Zebra. Well I won't need to set up for anyof you who are familiar with these groups as to who opened for who BUT Kev tells me all throughout the day and preperformance evening there was fighting and bickering going on backstage between the two opening bands as to who was the BEST. Each thinking more highly of themselves than they ought-duh. You should have no problems figuring out which of the three handled themselves with utmost class and respect to themselves, the other groups and all the support staff. Really the class acts do shine through and have the long developed relationships that perhaps withstood bouts of immaturity in their pasts- still though- you shouldn't have too much trouble guessing who the class act was...
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fattmeat
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« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2002, 06:22 PM » |
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In my opinion, people who wear strange stuff do it because they don't have the talent to entertain with their music. "Haha, look at my funny hat" is usually distracting from their music because it's not good. I personally would like to see bands dress for reasons other than attention or comedy.
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Bart Elliott
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« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2002, 06:40 PM » |
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In my opinion, people who wear strange stuff do it because they don't have the talent to entertain with their music. "Haha, look at my funny hat" is usually distracting from their music because it's not good. I personally would like to see bands dress for reasons other than attention or comedy.
Hmmmm ... well, that's a nice theory, but hardly accurate across the board. As much of a freak as he his, Prince is a brilliant musician; what can be said of that? |
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My doctor says it's bad for my blood pressure if my mind is blown for more than five minutes at a time.
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563
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« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2002, 07:08 PM » |
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hypothetical situation: 1) you go to see this band youve never heard before named rush. they are all dressed up like fantastic woodland creatures. 2) you go to see this band youve never heard before named rush. you dont notice thier clothes at all because they look like you, the guy at the video store, and that guy you always see driving the volkswagon around your local grocery store. is rush #2 not worth seeing? is rush #1 putting on a better show? are you only half listening to the music of rush #1 because you and your friends are talking about those costumes and missing out on hearing about the trouble in the forest? are you getting totally absorbed in the music of rush #2 because they are just guys who seem to love what they do? and now youre concerned about the trouble in the aforementioned forest? loaded questions i know. but again, where do you draw the line. is a ska band a ska band in jeans and t-shirts instead of suits? sure. but will you take them seriously? and id hazard a guess that prince probably looks like prince all the time, so its not really "gig wear" hes just a freak  |
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Making bad art. Saying stupid things. Implimenting my master plan to be forgotten when I'm gone and forgettable while I'm here. The Luna MothmeTableland |
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BlackEvovii
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« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2002, 09:19 PM » |
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If iam reading this right...who the hell cares what a band wears. When you go to a concert if a band puts on a good live show(regardless of playing naked or in pink feathers) that is a plus, if a band puts on a good stage show, that adds to the music and the dollar value you payed for a concert. If someone you see wheres plaid, does that make them a loser? how do you know? You make judgement just becuase.
A band called Mudvayne wears makeup and they happen to have some amazing harmonies, with some odd time signatures, as well as a good singer and being good at their instruments.
Dont be so fast to judge.
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bingbing
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« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2002, 12:39 AM » |
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but again, where do you draw the line. is a ska band a ska band in jeans and t-shirts instead of suits? sure. but will you take them seriously?
...and if we don't take them seriously, why not?  I've done the Ska/Sharkskin suit thing as well, and the Straight-Edge/ Athletic thing, and African Ensemble/Daishiki thing, and so on. These cases may not be KISS or Insane Clown Posse extremes, but they do suggest a certain "playing the part"...some may even say "preserving and paying homage to the (sub)culture of origin" of the music. As far as the "drummer as entertainer" thing goes, that could be interpreted so many ways. Perhaps it just means having presence.....um, as if that is less ambiguous. OK, my two cents. |
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TMe
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« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2002, 08:57 AM » |
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My two cents:
1) The stage show is just icing on the cake. I love icing. If you can play your best and then are willing to add to your work load by putting on a stage show, go for it. How much effort does it take to dress appropriately? Most of us have to do that for our day jobs.
2) The best theatrics will fall flat without the most important element, which is poise. A good way to work on poise is to practice in front of a mirror so you can see what you look like.
Practicing in a mirror can be helpful in other ways too. You can monitor things like posture and stick height more easily. Also, sometimes you can make internal changes starting with surface appearances. For example, if you practice projecting a sense of confidence, you might actually become more confident (or relaxed, or psychotic, or whatever you're going for).
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Niklas
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« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2002, 01:25 AM » |
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In my opinion, people who wear strange stuff do it because they don't have the talent to entertain with their music. "Haha, look at my funny hat" is usually distracting from their music because it's not good. I personally would like to see bands dress for reasons other than attention or comedy. My opinion: Good music + good show = great entertainment I want something more than I get on a record. I want a visual experience too. Dressing "like an adult" and having monster chops, doesn't quite do it for me. Sure it's fun to see bands pull off great chops but imagine if they would add a show to that... Rush "all dressed up like fantastic woodland creatures." Whoa, now we're talking! |
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paul
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« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2002, 09:17 AM » |
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I thought black t-shirts were pretty cool the first time my band got some 27 years ago. Now they're trite.
I'm a firm believer in dressing for gigs. I believe that dressing up helps to accentuate the boundary between the musicians and the audience, and I think that a certain level of visual flash helps the band's appeal.
No matter what the gig, even in beer joints, I always try to at least wear a brightly colored shirt. I think uniforms can be really classy, too, depending on the type of music being played.
I've been in bands where we had special stage clothes that we used regardless of whether it was a club or concert (satin, sequins, whatever), and I think it always helped me get in the proper mood to play when I got dressed for the gig.
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The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely preferable to the presence of those who think they've found it. - Terry Pratchett My drum page |
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Theo
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« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2002, 11:50 AM » |
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I've stayed and watched full sets by bands when the music didn't warrant it simply because the people in the band were entertaining. There was this weird band in NYC and the music was okay, the singer was just a nut. He kind of dressed like David Byrne in the "same as it ever was" video and was just really squirelly acting.
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cavanman
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« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2002, 10:43 AM » |
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"all dressed up like fantastic woodland creatures."
I think I am going to use the phrase "fantastic woodland creatures" all day today! ROTFL!!! Sorry, that's just plain funny to me right now... But seriously folks: I think there is always going to be an element of presentation with professional level music. Rent the video of Sting's first solo concert "Bring on the Night" and catch Police/Sting manager Miles Copeland (brother of Stewart) just _creaming_ the lady who made costumes for this great band of jazz players (Omar Hakim is fantastic in this video. The 'I Burn for You' drum solo is worth the whole rental). Now although I think these top drawer jazzers in the band (Branford Marsalis, Kenny Kirkland, etc) would have drawn the line at being dressed as "fantastic woodland creatures." (LOL! ..sorry), they probably didn't have a problem with snazzy threads provided and it did 'gel' with Sting's vibe. As did the artsy stage adornment. Also I saw Pat Metheny (OT: PLEASE see new drummer/Wertico replacement Antonio Sanchez play. Just sickeningly good) a few months ago and as much as the band appeared to have free reign for clothing, the lighting and stage setting was woven into the music - and yes it was effective. Would Pat's music work without lighting and stage setting? Sort of a silly question in regards to that he has been performing in so many different scenarios without the need for the slightest visual enhancement. Did it (visual presentation) make a difference to my total concert experience? Absolutely. So are we happy that part of the ticket price we pay is for "visual" or costumes when our primary reason for going is the quality of music? I am ok with it but know that I have a hard time with (IMHO) over the top theatrics that seem to take our focus _AWAY_ from the music as opposed to being 'in concert' (play on words intended) with the music. As far as Rush is concerened (haven't seem them live), Neil Peart's solo would be just as powerful with the lights kinda dim and with no special stage setting. However. If the extra 'stuff' helps the audience to respond - and that in turn spurs the musician on in some intangible way - then the bigger picture of presentation has a more solid yes vote. OK, 'nuff said. BTW: Wonder how Geddy Lee and Alex Lifeson would 'cotton' to being dressed as fuzzy little bunnies. (LOL! "all dressed up like fantastic woodland creatures" I said it again!!!! LOL!) |
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"I like-uh....dooo....da cha-cha..."
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cavanman
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« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2002, 10:51 AM » |
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Sorry I posted the above and it all loks like a quote from Niklas. The bulk of the message below the firts line is my stuff. Sorry guys!
Jim
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563
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« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2002, 12:19 PM » |
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well its happened again. i have thoughts on a matter, and something sparks a question about it. i ask for the opinions of my peers here on the board and because of those opinions my thoughts on the matter changed. thanks for keeping me on my toes |
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Making bad art. Saying stupid things. Implimenting my master plan to be forgotten when I'm gone and forgettable while I'm here. The Luna MothmeTableland |
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pipster
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« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2002, 12:50 PM » |
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oh dear oh dear..you've really hit a raw nerve with me here..Please humour me while I put on my PVC and glitter makeup and climb on my very high soap box with personal lighting effects and dry ice machine.. I've spent a lot of time at bike rallies ,rock pubs and , well..places that have bands on and eventually got absolutely P****d off at bands turning up in their bloody work clothes or the clothes they'd been travelling in and wearing the exactly the same on stage.OK so some can get away withit cos they are naturally into the image (eg..biker in rock band) but I've seen guys who look like they just got up out the audience and started playing...I feel positively cheated when this happens and think it shows a total lack of respect for the audience and even less respect to the person paying them (which can also be the audience if there's a gate charge) That's why I formed a Glam Rock band and yes we ARE a glam ROCK band with a real mad axe player and camp frontman and it absolutely rocks..No one, at the end of a gig, can say they didn't get their money's worth ,even if they weren't into it much (love it or hate it) at the end of the day we have put in the effort..an effort we don't HAVE to put in but we do and people appreciate that... on a final note I'd just like to say Alice Cooper..Ozzy Osbourn...David Bowie...Frank Zappa..Etc etc..I rest my case.!!!  |
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Tony
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« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2002, 07:17 AM » |
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I've always felt that a live show should have an ebb and flow. If lighting, costumes and what not are part of that flow, then more power to you. What I have a problem with is when the "show" becomes more important then the music. Mudvayne, Slipnot, etc. are bands that are trying to go for an "anonymous" look with their costumes, telling the press that they dress that way to detract from each person in the band and make people concentrate on the music. I disagree wholeheartedly. The fact that their "image" is in the press and covered more than their music detracts from what they are doing musically. It's a fine balancing act when it comes to substance over style. A band that can blend a good stage show with good music has it together.
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The techniques, though they play an important role in the early stage, should not be too restrictive, complex or mechanical. If we cling to them, we will become bound by their limitation. Any technique, however worthy and desirable, becomes a disease when the mind is obsessed with it.
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