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Author Topic: Telecommuting: the future of drumming?  (Read 1092 times)
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Poser
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« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2004, 08:54 PM »

No, I agree with you.  I think I even mentioned that somewhere.  The home studio has given us, the unkowing, the ability to learn how to record from home.  It has also given the assessible technology and made recording equipment affordable.  Now, we  are beginning to learn how to combine all of these elements.  How to use digital mastering, how to record from home and make it sound brilliant, how to capture a true and beautiful sound and a actual moment in time and make it sound brilliant... and do it from home on a shoe string budget.  Everything has its place and technology and digital recording will go as far as it can before we back off and find the right balance.  As I pointed out earlier, if you listen to the new Loratta Lynn album you'll find a fine example of balance between new technology- digital mastering, recording to tape in a home studio, mostly live.  Overall very organic with big, live sounding drums.  It has balance, at least for our moment in history.
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felix
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« Reply #21 on: July 26, 2004, 08:04 AM »

VERY INTERESTING
The big problem here is that every producer has favourite mics, even favourite tracking rooms. I can't possibly afford to cover all those bases.
Anyway, I have my fingers crossed.
I seriously expect it to be the future.
So many of my friends and contacts work at home, but because of the cost of studio hire they often end up compromising the drum tracks by using loops or triggering samples. I think they'd be thrilled if they could get the drums exactly how they want using my service.

Check this out- it will blow your mind.

http://www.ffliquid.com/info.html

Now you can have any vintage mic/compressor/preamp/COMBO in your home studio.  PLus there are plenty of reverb programs that you can dial in any size room you want.
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Yaay!
Chris Whitten
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« Reply #22 on: July 26, 2004, 09:01 AM »

Thanks for the tip off Felix.
I have in fact been following the Liquid Channel story for about a year.
I don't tend to like 'virtual' equipment and the jury is very much out on this bit of kit (amongst the audio fraternity). Also the price is frightening. Here's a couple of pretty respected guys talking about the unit on a recording forum:
http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php3?s=e85148118c8197d6e146da62f608ffba&threadid=18243
I think the larger components to a good drum sound are 1)the room and 2) the engineer. As both Lee (in MD) and Bart have hinted they don't have particularly versatile rooms, I was wondering if anything had been commented on by clients.
I would probably hire an engineer to help me set up the drum sound a couple of times when I start out, but I guess in the end you have to become a decent engineer yourself. I was wondering if anyone (like Bart) had any thoughts on that.
I'm lucky in that I have a few good mic/pre's and compressors. I'm also putting together some professional quality mics.
So it was the recording room and lack of 'hands on' input from the client (possibly a pinnickity producer) I was wondering about.
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jesster
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« Reply #23 on: July 26, 2004, 11:20 AM »

I'm no session pro....but my humble take on all if this is: use whatever means you have at your disposal to get the job done...including technology. I don't have the right setup to do pro-sounding recording...but I have enough to make a decent recording and have found that I can use it in a lot of ways to help the logistics of playing. In the current band that I am in....I bring my laptop and we record every take at every practice...including some jams. Then I upload all of those as MP3s to my machine when I get home and they can access those files through my broadband connection. We basically end up with a huge amount of material and different takes of all of the stuff in a library that is available all the time. I frequently will record new drum tracks at home and put them in the library for the rest of the band to listen to.

Basically...since I came up with the idea and started doing it, the rest of the guys in the band (especially the singer/songwriter) are fairly wowed by it....they find it incredibly useful to have 'that version of some tune where he did that groovy bass line and we tried the alternate ending' ..... on demand.

I have also created drum tracks for a few songs that a few freinds have needed drums on (low budget) and distributed it to them electronically and this has worked out very well.

Any good systems analyst knows that sometimes technology is NOT the solution to a problem, but it can help tremendously in a lot of situations...it's all about the right mix for the problem or system at hand (kinda like a drum track).
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drumz1
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« Reply #24 on: July 29, 2004, 10:21 PM »

There is a drummer here in Missouri that has been doing just what you are talking about for a number of years, and is very successful at it.

His name is Pete Generous, and you can get an idea of how he does it by visiting and exploring his website:

       http://www.generousgroove.com/

Regards,
drumz1
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I told my wife that a husband is like a fine wine; he gets better with age. The next day, she locked me in the cellar.
pgenerous
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« Reply #25 on: July 30, 2004, 08:52 AM »

Hey, Gents-

A very interesting debate on this topic.  I'm the guy drumz1 refers to.  In checking my web hits this morning, I found the link to this site.  Very cool!  So I registered to be a part of the drumming community here.  

Goodness!  I have been so busy I just realized I hadn't updated my web site in months!  I am also using a server now which makes my clients very happy.  I might also add that the client has final say on a performance I do for him.  After all, they are the writer AND the producer from I'm where I'm sitting.  I have encountered very few problems regarding catching the right 'vibe' that the client is looking for.  I find that a good song tends to write it's own drum part.  Spending enough time listening to the song along with some notes that the client will usually send makes tracking the piece a breeze.  Like I said, the part practically writes itself.  I make take a few chances in the fill department if the tune warrants and the client gives me free reign to do so.  I usually try to be fairly conservative in that regard but have also done some things a little 'over the top' that clients have loved.  You've gotta trust your instincts--and you have to be pretty experienced in the studio to hone those instincts in the first place.  

Here is a link to some things I have recorded recently for clients in my own studio:  http://www.songramp.com/homepage.ez?Who=pgenerous  

As I mentioned earlier, this is a very cool debate and I enjoyed reading all the threads...but I have a student coming over in a bit and have to get ready for him.  I will check in here often--it's a great site.  Thanks to Bartman for creating it!  

Unitl I modify my profile with a photo and a custom sig, I remain just plain Pete
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pgenerous
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« Reply #26 on: July 30, 2004, 08:54 AM »

Hey, Gents-

A very interesting debate on this topic.  I'm the guy drumz1 refers to.  In checking my web hits this morning, I found the link to this site.  Very cool!  So I registered to be a part of the drumming community here.  

Goodness!  I have been so busy I just realized I hadn't updated my web site in months!  I am also using a server now which makes my clients very happy.  I might also add that the client has final say on a performance I do for him.  After all, they are the writer AND the producer from where I'm sitting.  I have encountered very few problems regarding catching the right 'vibe' that the client is looking for.  I find that a good song tends to write it's own drum part.  Spending enough time listening to the song along with some notes that the client will usually send makes tracking the piece a breeze.  Like I said, the part practically writes itself.  I make take a few chances in the fill department if the tune warrants and the client gives me free reign to do so.  I usually try to be fairly conservative in that regard but have also done some things a little 'over the top' that clients have loved.  You've gotta trust your instincts--and you have to be pretty experienced in the studio to hone those instincts in the first place.  

Here is a link to some things I have recorded recently for clients in my own studio:  http://www.songramp.com/homepage.ez?Who=pgenerous  

As I mentioned earlier, this is a very cool debate and I enjoyed reading all the threads...but I have a student coming over in a bit and have to get ready for him.  I will check in here often--it's a great site.  Thanks to Bartman for creating it!  

Unitl I modify my profile with a photo and a custom sig, I remain just plain Pete
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redchapterjubilee
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« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2004, 09:09 AM »

I've been doing this for awhile but on a much smaller scale.

I live in Seattle now but grew up in the Southeast.  When I left college in Kentucky the band I was in decided to break up.  But the singer/songwriter decided that we would form a recording duo making albums through the mail.  This was 1996.  We would send four-track cassettes back and forth and make albums that way.  These days, thanks to MP3, FTP, CDR and ProTools our job is much easier with better fidelity.   Some friends from high school contacted me and I now play drum on their country demos.  It's very fulfilling.

I'm in the process of making my first official studio solo album.  In order to have my diverse collection of former bandmates and friends participate from all around the world I've taken to sending them MP3's of rough mixes, they record what they hear for the song on some form of recording software or tape or whatever, then they send it back to me in the mail.  Then I can load their tracks into my master session and can mix it right in or not use it at all.  It's so convenient and allows me to collaborate with folks who I'd normally not be able to work with because of travel, expenses, time commitments, etc.

It is truly the way of the future.  But I don't know that it will completely replace face-to-face contact.  I know my drum tracks are more energetic with the songwriter playing along with me in the same room.
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pgenerous
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« Reply #28 on: August 02, 2004, 08:57 AM »

To address the question of engineering, sonics, mics and outboard gear--yeah, you've gotta have all these things happening to begin with.  I never went to engineer's school but I have a lot of experience in the studio and that includes picking the engineer's brain constantly!  Producing is where things get tough--hiring the right talent, dealing with the client, mixing, remixing...that's a tough hat to wear.  Engineering is something you get better at with a lot of experience--making mistakes is how you learn.  I took to it pretty quickly, fortunately.  

The room is unquestionably the most important part of this whole operation.  It doesn't HAVE to be huge (it's nice if it is, though!) it just has to have some important things going on if it's not huge.  My room is only 10'x20' but it has a good inherent sound--the ceiling is gently sloped and there is wood wanscoting on the walls for a nice reflection.  I also had some exposed brick so that was tamed to a degree (with the advice of a couple of different engineer friends) with Auralex panels.  The rooms just sounds pretty good with drums in it to begin with.  Now mixing, on the other hand, is a bear in here.  I do some of that but tracking drums and percussion pays the bills.

Next was the gear--I chose an Akai DPS24 since it offered a pro control surface (100mm touch sensitive sliders, automation, multiple fader banks, etc) and the connectivity it provides (24 ADAT I/O with sync, SPDIF, channel inserts, USB, etc).  I connect the machine to my PC and transfer files via USB 2, so that allows me to do mixing/editing in Wavelab and Nuendo.  The current technology is just incredible.  Whether you're a purist or not, you've gotta be impressed with the capabilities at our disposal these days.  I used to wish I'd been born 50 years earlier--I just liked the music better for the most part.  Now I'm re-thinking that one!  It's an incredible age we live in.  

Good mics and some hot pre-amps are a must have for this to work as well.  If you want world class sounds, you're gonna have to pay for 'em!  I've got a D112, some Sennheiser 604s on the toms, Beta 57 on the snare (with a regular 57 underneath if necessary), AKG 451s for overheads and some Audio Technica 3035s for room mics/congas/acoustic guitar/upright bass--this is one amazing mic for about 200 bucks!  I love the 451 on bongos and most other percussion stuff.  I'm using Focusrite's Red series pre-amps.  They really make up for what I DON'T have in the microphone department.  I run them as hot as I can direct to disc.  I have not had a single complaint from a client regarding the sound I'm getting in here.  Some clients want the room mic--some don't.  One of them in Australia took my tracks into Melbourne's best studio to do vocals and mix.  The engineer there said they were first rate.  So this CAN be done on a somewhat modest budget--although the Red pre-amps are about 600 bucks per channel!  

Now I also know that you can't do this for everyone--some people still insist on paying  to have me come in and haul the A kit into their big rooms so I still do that as well.  This is just a very viable alternative to hauling that kit all over town--or halfway around the world.  It is a real money saver for good tracks that the client can mix to taste.  It's nice to have the kit always miked up and ready to record--in fact that's what I'm getting ready to do right now.  I'm not wearing ANY underwear, either!

Sorry for the long post-

Pete
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Chris Whitten
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« Reply #29 on: August 02, 2004, 11:59 AM »

Thanks Pete. Lots of interesting info there for me to mull on.
 Cool
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