DRUMMER CAFE

Is it controversial? I didn't know that. I can't imagine not having both techniques at my disposal. I know guys that play only one exclusively and they do it very well. I know guys that play only one exclusively and they're weak.

Whatever you do, it's a matter of repetition. I've seen one player play heel down and get quick triples, so I'm convinced it's not the technique. I do not believe there is anything magical about playing heel up, although it's probably easier to learn and play more complicated stuff faster than it is to build up the weaker muscles and play heel down.

*shrug*

Doesn't everyone here use both? Now the hi-hat foot, I probably use four different foot placements to do different things, two of which would probably send educated drummers through the roof because the foot leaves the pedal ....

Hmmm,.... Yeah maybe "controversial" wasn't the word he meant to use.

Controversial to me would mean making BD beaters out of rhino horn or something.

Heel-Toe is something I use everyday, probabaly in every song I play (at some point or another).  And I am definitely NOT a "bury the beater" kind of player.

So I guess my answer is:  Heel Toe is great!  Non heel toe is great.  What ever works best for whatever you are trying to play at any particular time.

Oh, and YES it can take some practice.

I actually use Terry Bozzio's method combined with the "heel toe" tap.  My foor is about half way down the board, and I use the ball of my foot for control.  To create doubles, the "spacing" that is off the pedal allows me to drop my heel to create doubles and triplets.

hehe,

was trying to be clever...  

but, can someone properly describe it to me?  I've had some differing opinions as to how to go about doing it, from the JoJo way to how Steve Smith does a modified version of it.

   This is what I do...Ball of the foot near the middle of the pedal.I have rather big feet and this spot seems the most responsive to me.

   I have a smooth pedal, the beater is around 45 degrees and the spring is rather loose. You need a smooth pedal for a nice heel-toe.

   You can tell a good, smooth pedal if you nudge the beater with your hand (without your foot on it) and it swings freely for a few seconds.

   Relaxing position: The heel is down and the beater is away from the bass drum head.
    
   Stage 1: Raise your leg (from the hip) until your foot is parallel to the ground without leaning on your toe to do it.
                    The ball of the foot doesn't loose contact with the footboard.

   Stage 2: Bring your heel down starting the pressure with the ball of the foot (the beater hits the bass drum) and transferring it to the heel.
            Imagine you're doing a 'rocking chair" movement on the foot board. So even though you're bringing your leg down, the foot (toes) rises, the beater is away from the head and you are ready for the next stroke.
                 
   
   Stage 3: Now transfer the pressure from the heel to the toes (the opposite "rocking chair" movement on the footboard), the beater hits the bass drum (at last !!!) but immediately after the stroke the leg rises, foot parallel to the ground, beater is ready and you are at the beginning of stage 1.
            

   The heel toe technique is very demanding (muscle-wise) so don't be disappointed if you don't get it right immediately. You need a fairly good heel down technique to start mastering it... It would also be a good idea to start learning it barefoot on the pedal and then add the Doc Martins...Good luck .  
   

Get the DVD by the guy that has the "worlds fastest feet" he show exacly how to practice heel and toe tech. I think it's worth learning. I haven't put to much time into it. He calls it toe down tech when he's going fast with it.

In spite of all the written explanations and videos, I think it is something you have to perfect by feel and experimentation.
I am now doing it but I couldn't tell you how and make it work for you.  It's like trying to explain to a beginner how a double stroke roll works.  You really don't understand it until you get there.

Roger

My take on it is: it's very hard to do.

I stink at it but always admired guys who could really make it happen, especially on hi hat.

I would very much like to develop this technique further.

Despite the name, you don't actually need to use your heel for this technique. I can't get all of my size 11s on my Yamaha FD either. Use the flat of your foot, then the toe. Check out Steve Smith's DVD for great coverage on this foot technique and others.

Do both. I find I use heel-toe (or sole-toe in my case, I suppose) mostly for quick doubles when playing time, but it's perfectly usable for pounding out rapid double-bass - just play alternate doubles on each foot. You'll need to work on consistency of volume for the two beats for this, just as you do with doubles in the hands - there's a tendency for the second beat to be quieter, especially as you get faster. Oh, and metal-heads will sneer at you for "cheating" by using heel-toe.  

However, you should practice heel-down, heel-up and heel-toe combinations to give you the physical "vocabulary" you'll need.

You will feel your shins burning doing the regular heel up doubles, but that's just because your legs needs to gain the strength and power to do it. Once you build it up, you will be able to shoot off doubles as fast as you please, and the burning will go away completely, as long as you play often. Heel-toe is lauded as some "ancient chinese secret" kinda thing...but really, there's not that much to fast bass drum doubles. Just practice it 15 minutes a day, and in 2 months, you'll being doing it. You don't need no shtinkin' heel toe...

I cant do that either cuz when I tryed that about 10 minutes ago my heel hits the floor before the pedal and stops ... if I put my foot up any further my toes get shreded buy the chain

One way to work to work on consistency of volume for the two beats is to count & 1 & 2 & 3 & 4.

Your mind tends to make the second beat louder (as loud as the first) when beating on the 1,2,3's and 4's.

I've always thought the same thing about the axis long boards.  I have big freakin' feet and my heels hang over the heel plate totally.  The people I've seen really play heel toe technique well on hats and kick drums frankly had small dogs.

Get some of the long boards and let us know.

its just like a flam on the bass drum...I personally play heel-toe when its needed and either heel up or down depending on what type of music im playing.

eg... heel up for more powerful rock music and heel down )usually) for jazz styles

thx Rman,

been using this as well as another technique my friend taught me to help me with my double stroke.  I.e. to think of the doubles as "to-DAY".  applied this to my heel/toe.

btw, I've been slowly but surely improving my fast double stroke since the day I first posted this.  thru a steady diet of metronome exercises, I'm realizing that no amount of mindless "noodling" on the kit can really make me better.  rather, improvement only comes with the amount of time you put into proper exercises to really unlock the "heel/toe" potential.

I'm actually using an amalgam of techniques made up of the technique steve smith describes in his video with that of a technique that I read in an issue of MD discussing bass drums and the techniques to play them.

FYI, my natural playing style lends itself to playing "off" the batter head.  thus, progress isnt quite as quick had I went with the "burying" the beater technique.  still, the tone benefits far outweigh the shin pain I used to experience.  and yet, doesnt know if its due to the extra muscle or the more relevant proper technique, but the pain has all but gone away, and it feels like I'm getting faster by the week.

I've been lurking in my own thread in the mean time, and alot of y'alls help is what helped me the most.  tho we always say around here to "get a teacher!", many times, I feel like my teachers are right here.

again, many thx guys!