DRUMMER CAFE

Well, ask any 14 year old girl (or their Daddy, for that matter ) if they got their money's worth when they went to the last Brintney concert.

Pure raw talent?  I can name a dozen local alt rock bands that are full of pure, raw talent.  That doesn't mean they are more legitimate to me then an entertainer like Britney, and it certainly doesn't mean a record company is going to take notice of them.  Unfortunately, talent is only a small factor in the decision making process when it comes to the entertainment industry, in which music is a part of.  

As for Geddy Lee, he used footpedal driven keys live in the past, now all their keyboard parts are sequenced.  But Neil's drum tech actually has control of the sequences; they are intergrated into his V-Drum setup.

Mr Squeeze...

My point was not about using studio musicans.  The point was that the guy was a "center piece" of this group yet he doesn't really play or sing on the albums or in concert.  
In Nashville you get hired to learn the parts of a session player.  That's fine, IF you are really playing.   This guy is pretending that he's really singing and playing.  Milli Vanilli lost their Grammy.

Poser,
Those URL's don't go anywhere.  

Not at all ... not sure how you got that from my comment (posted below).    Please quote specific sections of my comment to illustrate what youre talking about.

Pink Floyd have used a lot of pre recorded material live!
They took their recording studio engineer out on tour to make sure it worked every night.
They also toured with an enormous band of session musicians, backing up Gilmour and Mason.
Do I think they were concsiously trying to cheat the audience?
Nope, they were (are!) perfectionist guys who wanted the live show to be as close as possible to the recorded work. Due to the complex nature of the material, they couldn't achieve that without a large backing band and additional portions on tape.

Exactly was my point. I don't know of one act in Nashville on the national stage that isn't really playing. Are sequencers used at times to add percussion? Of course. You imply as if the players here don't really play.

Do pop acts such as Britney, and Jason Timberlake use sequencers with pre-recorded lyrics and music? Yes. It is a combination of live music and sequenced. This is nothing new. With the overhead involved with some of these acts, they cannot afford to carry 20 piece bands to cover all of the parts.

This does not mean that I support this sort of thing, but as a working musician, it is a part of lilfe.


Again, my point exactly. I know MV lost their Grammy, that is why I brought it up.

Do I think the audience is being ripped off? No- as Mr. A pointed out, it is entertainment, and the audience comes to hear their favorite singer,or band, the way they hear them on the CD. This of course is not true in every genre, but more so in the pop-rock category.

How much of the Monkees music was written, sung and performed by the guys on the TV show?

There's a side to this that is being missed ...

Playing along to tracks, loops, sequences, etc., is part of re-creating the sound that was achieved on the albums. That's the biggest reason why you'll see artists and bands use technology to support their performance. To re-create the entire studio album in a live setting would be too costly. In a sense, over producing an album can cause real problems when it comes to the live performance.

Are some people using technology as a crutch? Yes. But that doesn't mean, or at least shouldn't be assumed, that EVERYONE is using it for the same reasons. Today's audience basically expects to hear live what they hear on the album.

Some artists, such as Britney, Madonna, etc., use vocal tracks to cover for them because they are doing so much choreography (dancing) that it's tough to sing JUST like it is on the album. For the other musicians, technology allows them to play the same show, night after night, with the same sound and polish.

One particular Rock band I toured with (twelve years ago) used tracks. The lead singer (artist) was not able to go night after night and hit all these high notes. If he was tired on one particular night, the vocal track was added into the mix, and he would just sing (live) down an octave. There BGVs (background vocals) were also on tracks. The band members were singing and playing, but the BGV tracks were added to give the same vocal fullness as on the album. It's a reality of live performances ... depending on the genre. It's tough for an artist, especially a vocalist, to perform night after night, and sound like a million bucks every time.

Yes, artists and musicians can use technology to make them sound better than they really are. However, just about every major act you'll see perform live CAN do it just like the album. Whether you like her or not, Britney (as one example) CAN sing. As far as ethics ... I have a greater concern for those making albums who either can't or don't perform live. But on the other hand, if you like the album, who cares ... right?

563,
this is the sentence that led me to intent.  I do believe that intent has a lot to do with art despite your disagreement.  Let me explain:

Let's take Jazz for example.  Jazz has two primary characteristics:  it swings and there is improvisation involved.  Both of these characteristics can be found in other music, but most will agree in order to be Jazz there must be some improvisation prsent and it must have a swing feel.  If it doesn't have these two elements then it must be another type of music.

Let's have the Bill Evans Trio play a piece of us.  Let's say its standard ABA form with 32 bar choruses with solos.  It's Jazz- it swings and they imrpovise their solos.  So let's have that piece transcribed accurately (solos too).  

Now let's take a different ensemble of players and have them play the transcribed tune note for note.  The solos are not improvised, they are played as transcribed.   That's not the intent of Jazz.   It has become something else, I don't know what it is, but its something else.  Intent.

Jazz musicians hold themselves to a certain ethic that is tied to their intentions.  Often times, they will play completly different solos with different thematic material each time they play a chart.  That's intentional.  That's setting a standard to cahllenge themselves and express themslves differently each time they play.

Public Enemy had something to say when they emerged.  I think that was art becasue of where their intentions were.   I don't want to be dropped off in Compton, but I understand where they were coming from. Fifty Cent has different intetnions.  His intentions were to get rich and be a thug-star.  I call Bullsh*t on him.  

Using technology to enhance your performance is different from faking your performance in order to be a star.  I also call bullsh#t on the guy  who didn't sing or play on his album and who fakes his singing and playing live.  His intentions are questionable.  How is he expressing himself as an artist?  He's faking it from every angle.  he's a fraudulent artist.

The question emerges, how much of a role does intent play in art?
At the end of the day maybe it does matter.  Nat King Cole to Fifty Cent.  You call that progress?   Robert Johnson to a guy having his guitar playing be done for him and then faking it live.  You call that progress?
Hank Williams didn't need auto tune and Tim Mcgraw reportedly can't perfrom live without it.  You call that progress?  Ray Charles never lip synced and Usher probably always does.  You call that progress?

I think we have to be careful at pointing the finger at someone unless you know for a fact. Many assume the worst, but don't have all the information in place to make a clear call on this. Perhaps you do have all the evidence. Making accusations without factual evidence doesn't help your case. I understand that perhaps you can't be specific, or simply don't want to ... to maintain your own privacy. In either case, it's hard for us to consider anything as being truthful when there is no disclosed evidence to support the claim. If there is, it has not been shared or revealed in this thread.

All of this starts sounding like a bitter, vicious attack ... even though I'm sure that's not your heart on the matter. If we can't have the facts ... perhaps we should just drop the topic. All that has happened thus far is spread (or start) rumors.