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Author Topic: Buffalo conga heads  (Read 2762 times)
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dannydrumperc
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« on: January 07, 2005, 08:24 AM »

I've seen lots of complaints here about the sound quality of buffalo drumheads. I have a few questions related to this.

1) If they are so bad, we do pro congas from the top manufactures comes with them?
2) Why do those same manufacturers dont offer other options, like mule or cowhide?
3) How can I improve the sound of my buffalohide conga heads?

I have this weird situation going on, and it is that I prefer the sound Im getting out of my Aspires better than the sound of my Matador set. I think it is due to the aging of the heads, being the Aspires like four years older than the Matadors.

I havent played the Matadors too much (especially lately). I think the skins still need to stretch a bit more. Or all the opposite, Maybe they are too thin. The drums sound very good and loud, but Ill like to have a bit more of bass.

What can be done with my current heads?
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B-cero
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« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2005, 01:01 PM »

I don't think there is anything bad about water buffalo skin, but like most drums, head selection and preference helps to define your personal sound.  When L.P. first moved to Thailand and started using the Buffalo skin it was thick skin and sounded that way. We were grateful to have a consistent source of skin.  A typical L.P. head now is much thinner.  Thin skin is easier for a beginner to play and  louder.  Your Matadors are wide belly and Aspires are narrow that will affect tone also.   I recomend you find a drum you do like the sound of and see what kind of skin and thickness it has and also how it is tuned then see if you can bring your drums to that sound.  You may need new heads.  
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dannydrumperc
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« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2005, 01:17 PM »

I like the sound of Matador drums – that was the main reason for buying them – and the color is great (black wood / chrome hardware). It is simply that I have received some comments from fellow musicians about them liking the volume of the Matador but the sound of the Aspires.

Thats why I think the problem may be that heads arent yet cured. There anything that could be done to accelerate this process?
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B-cero
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« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2005, 01:46 PM »

 Playing them will break them in so, extra playing time?
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dannydrumperc
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« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2005, 01:51 PM »

I think that I'm asking for an imposible. Ther's no kind of "microwave" method for solving this. Those drums and I will have to chat for a while ... and more than once Grin

Thanks!
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OldGuyAl
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« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2005, 02:44 PM »

as one of the main complainers of LP's buffalo skins, let me first say - it's a personal preference thing I am sure but, here's what I look for in the sound of a conga head: the sound of a string being plucked like a cello or a double bass for the open tones.   Again, let me stress, for emphasis and so as not to offend anyone - it is my humble opinion that you can get a decent slap out of almost any head and the bass tone seems to be a bit more dependent upon the shell than the head (not 100%) but, if you want to have the full range of sounds, your open tones have got to sound "musical".   For me, there is no "music" in the buffalo skins that LP ships on even their best drums.  

I don't think it has anything to do with aging or breaking in because I personally think that heads wear out like strings (on a cello) - of course, brand new ones will stretch rapidly at the beginning of their lives.   Heads can be treated with oils and emulients (sp?) to keep them supple but, there again, the problem (for me) with the LP buffalo heads - they seem to have some kind of coating or finish or something (does anybody know what they put on them?) so that they don't take treatments and they don't hold bee's wax (which I use sometimes during gigs when my hands tend to sweat and make it harder to stick good slaps).

Anyway, sorry this is so long but, I've been using cow on my conga and tumba and they sound wonderfully musical.  I have a muleskin on order (should arrive any day now) for my quinto and I'll let y'all know how I like it.  The hardest part for me has been finding heads and/or guys to make them!  I have not tried to make my own and I doubt that I ever will.    Mountain Rythym has some premium cow heads but I have not yet tried them on my LPs so I'm not positive that they will fit.   Meinl makes some pretty good heads but they do not fit on LPs and they aren't so great that I would go to a lot of trouble to try to make them fit.

I bet there are some who will disagree with some of what I have said - or have different tastes and opinions - I'd love to hear them!   That's what I really like about this forum!
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B-cero
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« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2005, 05:21 PM »

There are many sources for cow/steer skin and heads these days, if you are willing and able to mount your own.       some readymade heads will fit other brands, sometimes you just need to change the skinwire to fit the hoop which is much easier than using a flat skin.   some companies that will sell you cow/steer skins or heads are funky traditon, Mambiza, Sol, Timba,and Bauer(espirito drums). and rythmtraders,(sp?)
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rdmitch
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« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2005, 08:20 PM »

If you are looking to treat the heads to add back in some of the natural oils and moisture, stay away from items such as hand lotion with perfumes in them.  I have found that a light coating of pure lanolin (available at most pharmacies) works well. Rub it in well and let it do it's thing.
 This is even more important if you soak a head prior to removing a skinwire, as the soaking process takes most the natural oils out of the hide.

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bongo
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« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2005, 07:45 PM »

I'll put out a few thoughts on this. In my opinion the stock water buffalo heads found on Thailand made drums such as LP sound fantastic under the hands of the pros that endorse them. I am blown away by the open tones and slaps these guys get using a flat hand technique.

That said, I personally use cow or bull skin and have trouble with buffalo skin heads. I am not use to them and I can not get my sound, the open tone is ringy and my slaps and pops are not good.

So, I am thinking of getting an LP quinto with a buffalo head, just so I can practice pulling good sounds from the drum. I should know how.
 
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OldGuyAl
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« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2005, 07:34 AM »

want to buy a good used LP buffalo quinto head?  Cheesy

I hear what you're  saying - I think some of those pros could make a shoe box sound fantastic but I don't think I'll ever be that good.

I listen to some of the "Pros Play" stuff on the LP site and it makes me wonder if somehow these guys (like Giovanni) are getting special treatment from LP in selecting heads because I just can't believe they sound that good playing the same heads that LP ships to the "great unwashed masses" like me.  Is it really possible that the technique I use to play a single open tone is sooooooooo different from these guys?
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B-cero
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« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2005, 02:20 PM »

African rhythm traders sells both water buffalo and steer has this to say (from their websit, edited) ..."steer has a warmer, more melodic tone...perfect for rumba, water buffalo is thinner, has more ring to it and makes for the crisp slaps you hear on recent recordings, perfect for salsa". Their steer cost much more than the buffalo.   The pro endorsers must have their pick of the skin. I think with a bit of effort we all can find our "perfect skin" Roll Eyes
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bongo
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« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2005, 10:18 AM »

I wonder if somehow these guys (like Giovanni) are getting special treatment from LP in selecting heads because I just can't believe they sound that good playing the same heads that LP ships to the "great unwashed masses" like me.  Is it really possible that the technique I use to play a single open tone is sooooooooo different from these guys?

I have the LP produced DVD "DRUM SOLOS REVISITED" that shows 10 or 12 New York area pros vamping on solos with a good band backing them up. It is a good video and shows split angles from front, sides and above and has bongo, conga, and timbale solos.

You clearly can see the heads on the conga drums. It looks like some of the tumbas have heavier obpege cow skin, but most of the quintos seem to be using the water buffalo. Like I said, the slaps these guys get from those heads are fantastic, and contrast distinctly from the open tones.

African rhythm traders sells both water buffalo and steer has this to say (from their websit, edited) ..."steer has a warmer, more melodic tone...perfect for rumba, water buffalo is thinner, has more ring to it and makes for the crisp slaps you hear on recent recordings, perfect for salsa".

Bingo  Smiley
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OldGuyAl
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« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2005, 12:14 PM »

"steer has a warmer, more melodic tone...perfect for rumba, water buffalo is thinner, has more ring to it and makes for the crisp slaps..."

Well said!

No doubt the buffalo slaps like a firecracker.  Just for fun, I'll occaisionally pop one out of nowhere (while we're setting up) just to watch my bandmates jump outta their skins.  Hehehe.   If that's the sound you're going for then, buffalo is what you want!

When I finally get the coinage together to buy a requinto, I imagine I'll keep the buffalo on it.
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dannydrumperc
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« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2005, 09:11 AM »

Definitely! My quinto has a killer single-handed slap. The conga is the one I would like to go little deeper; but it still can buzz the windows Grin

Im quite happy with my set. I think Ill add a tumba someday for that extra bottom.

But returning to the topic: Ill give a try as soon as I can to the NuSkins. How close do they are to real skin - not feel; sound?
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OldGuyAl
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« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2005, 08:32 AM »

I should probably post this in the "product reviews" but, I have to tell you guys that I just mounted my new mule-skin quinto head from Isaac of FUNKY TRADITION and it is the best fitting custom or after-market head I've ever tried!  

I haven't really played it yet because I'm going slowly and letting the head get a good seat and a slow stretch but, I've got to give kudos and atta-boys to Isaac for OUTSTANDING customer service!  He has emailed me about 10 times (usually within a few minutes) to answer all my questions and just to check and make sure I'm satisfied.   This is a righteous shop and Isaac is Da' Man!

If you want to contact him about some heads, email him at:
Isaac Gutwilik [funkytradition@yahoo.com]

No, I am in no way connected with this company but just want to recommend a great source for all you "head shoppers" in the 'hood.


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FunkyTradition
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« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2005, 11:31 AM »

Hi, This is Isaac. I'm a percussionist, mainly congas but
also bongos, timbales, framedrums, doumbek, pandeiro, etc. I've
been playing since 1978.
I've always mounted my own cow heads
that I purchased myself. In the early 90's I started going to the JCR
percussion company in the bronx, to get them to mount new heads for
me and also custom repairs. They are a small family run business
that caters to the who's who of the the NY and Puerto Rico Salsa scene.
Cali Rivera, the owner and skilled craftsman was also a Timbalero
that has played with the late great Arsenio Rodriguez, ( the Architect
of Son Montuno) and also plays with Cuatro master - Yomo Toro.
He recommended to me the loose mule skins he imported from Venezuela and Colombia. I tried them but thought they were
a bit ugly (untreated with odd markings from the animal and the odd bit
of animal hair). Last year I left my full time day gig - a career in advertising design and art. ( I still do it freelance) and began importing
and selling percussion instruments. When asked where they come from
I say " Asia, Africa and the Bronx!"  I became a rep. for the JCR
products - bells, bongos, timbales, which had built up a great word-of-mouth reputation since 1978 when they began. Cali's timbales and bells were formally inaugurated into the Metropolitan Musem's permanent collection last month (Dec. 21/04).
   The reason for the prevalence Buffalo heads is really a business issue.
Not only are they cheaper to manufacture, but the labor costs
of preparing them is so much lower than in the USA, which is why
TVs, Cameras, PC etc are made in Asia.  Drum manufacturing is likewise
a  business that wants to be profitable and to survive and grow. For the
workers that make them, they don't know the difference in sound,
since the conga is not part of their culture's musical sound spectrum.
  The wood on the Asian made drums (Toca, Pearl, LP, Meinl, etc)
is very good. For better hardware or heavier wood you pay more,
but essentially all these drums are "good enough" for most players.
  To upgrade your instrument, there's a vital component easily removed
and switched - that's the skin. If your drums came with the cow or steer
from the USA ( ie. like LP used to offer when they were manufactured in New Jersey), the price would easily cost an additional $120 for a set of
two drums.
 Just like a guitarist upgrades to better strings or pickups, it's
up to us individual conga players to make sure our instrument sounds
as best as possible. Good technique is first and foremost - without
it ,  excuse me for saying - you'll suck, no matter how good the
instrument. Vice versa, a good player will bring out the musicality
from the crappiest of surfaces. It's also a subjective matter for
the developed ear., and I don't want to sound snobbish about it.
I spent a bit of time in Cuba in 1988, and the quality of instruments was
dismal. Yet, everyone sounded great on them! I should add that the whereas the drums were flimsy, they played on great skins - cow
and mule.

My personal feeling is to play the hell out of whatever you've got,
until its time is up, then work your way up to somthing better.
By that time you'll have earned it.

~ ISAAC ~
Percussionist / Writer for World Percussion & Rhythm / Rep. for JCR

funkytradition@yahoo.com

ps. I'll be at the NAMM instrument show and let you know of any new
developments in the percussion world.
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dannydrumperc
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« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2005, 01:09 PM »

Thanks for your reply!

It's always good to have people from the industry as reference when gear-related questions rise.
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« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2005, 08:04 PM »

I would just like to second OldGuyAl's comments.

I recently purchased mule skins from FunkyTradition for my LPs, and I wanted to make sure I was putting them on correctly.  I emailed Isaac to make sure.  Saturday night, I got a phone call - from Isaac.  He was concerned that I'd messed up.  Fortunately, I hadn't started putting the new skins on.

I've never heard of service like that before - perhaps similar to Roy Burns with Aquarian, I suppose.  Fantastic.

Ten thumbs (all mine) up!
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Fed
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« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2005, 08:24 AM »

So how much would two skins for my Aspires cost?

I don't know much about this subject but few times I played on LPs that had kind of white matte type skin... is that cow?

Because I liked that kind much better then the glossy yellow/brown I have on my Aspires ... which I assume is buffalo.  

Also is there a way to tame the ring in the congas without changing the skin... like putting tape under or somthing... just wonderring if anyone tried something like that?
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« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2005, 08:26 AM »

And Isaac... so glad you chimed in... very nice to hear someone with your expirience ...
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