Mister Acrolite
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« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2005, 09:52 PM » |
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I must be missing something here.
Why is it so hard to conceive of an otherwise right-handed setup, with the snare drum moved to the left of the hi-hat? Drummers have been putting secondary snare drums to the left of their hi-hats for years.
One of the great things about the drum set is, we can pretty much put the individual pieces of the set wherever we want. Why should anyone be locked into the "standard" setup? As long as you can get to the parts of the set in the way that you want, what's the problem?
I gotta go with collective intelligence. Over the last century, ALL the great drummers have opted for a centrally located primary snare. Also, drums are second only to piano in that if you're a serious player, you'll occasionally end up playing somebody else's instrument. If you can't play a "conventional" drumkit, your opportunities to sit in - or sometimes audition - are extremely limited. I warn very strongly against becoming reliant on a setup that is so far from the norm that you can't play well on a conventional setup. Sure, you can set your snare on your left. But what possible advantage does it offer? When somebody complains that a certain thing doesn't feel "comfortable" or "natural," I can't help but point out what an inherently UN-natural thing it is to play a drumkit. You're asking all your limbs to perform different functions - something very few tasks on Earth require. So I argue that this "discomfort" is another word for "inexperience." Incu's previous posts have shown him to be a relative newcomer to drumming, and it is with that in mind that I made my recommendation. Pay some dues. Learn some traditional techniques - they're traditional for a reason - they WORK. Then, as your desire to express yourself develops, adjust your technique to help you express yourself. But to do so while ignoring conventional wisdom is - I think - a copout, and an invitation to weakness and bad habits. Learn the rules. Master them. THEN break them. |
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jameswalker
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« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2005, 10:11 PM » |
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Those are good points, Keith, and I do agree with the sentiment of your last two sentences...but "collective intelligence" also has the vast majority of us (at least, the right-handers) setting the hi-hat to the left of the snare drum, and then crossing our right hand over our left to play it (or reaching around, etc.), which on the face of it is a completely illogical approach, IMHO. "I'm going to play the hi-hat with one hand and the snare drum with the other hand...hey, I'll hit the thing on the left with my right hand, and the thing on the right with my left hand!"
Besides, focusing on this specific issue (placement of the snare drum) - how much time does it take to pick up a snare drum on its stand, move it to the left of the hi-hat, and (if needed) move the hi-hat stand to the right? We're not talking about a drastic rearrangement of the parts of the drum set.
I don't mean to be argumentative, but would you also recommend against a student adopting an "open-handed" setup, with the ride cymbal set on the left next to the hi-hat, rather than on the player's right, simply because most drummers have their ride cymbal on the right? The very same sorts of logistical problems would present themselves at a jam session or on an audition.
I do agree that our young friend here should at least try playing with the snare drum centered...but I also don't think he "has to" set up the snare drum between his legs just because that's the "norm."
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IncuDrummer
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« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2005, 10:25 PM » |
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Those are good points, Keith, and I do agree with the sentiment of your last two sentences...but "collective intelligence" also has the vast majority of us (at least, the right-handers) setting the hi-hat to the left of the snare drum, and then crossing our right hand over our left to play it (or reaching around, etc.), which on the face of it is a completely illogical approach, IMHO. "I'm going to play the hi-hat with one hand and the snare drum with the other hand...hey, I'll hit the thing on the left with my right hand, and the thing on the right with my left hand!"
lol, that's priceless |
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Mister Acrolite
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« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2005, 05:42 AM » |
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felix
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« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2005, 07:21 AM » |
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I just try and play a conventional setup as unconventionally as possible. To me, that's cool. Then when you get on an unconventional set up and still manage to kick butt- well you should see them scratch their heads.
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Yaay!
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diddle
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« Reply #25 on: January 28, 2005, 10:27 AM » |
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I must be missing something here.
Why is it so hard to conceive of an otherwise right-handed setup, with the snare drum moved to the left of the hi-hat? Drummers have been putting secondary snare drums to the left of their hi-hats for years.
Because of basic ergonomics!   He's complaining of discomfort, not trying to seek some *different* setup. If someone hands you a plate of food, you would naturally hold it right in front of your chest, not skewed to one side of your body (unless you are strange). Hey, that analogy reminds me of Joe Morello's video  Proper kit config is extreamly important, especially for new drummers. |
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mediablamer
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« Reply #26 on: January 28, 2005, 10:44 AM » |
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This has absolutely nothing to do with conventional wisdom. Doing something different from convention for the sake of doing it differently is just idiotic. Likewise, conforming to convention for the sake of conforming is foolish. My set-up mostly follows convential wisdom, but conventional wisdom has nothing to do with why I set it up that way. I put each component of my kit where it is for a practical and explainable reason.
Thus, it's really his decision. If he wants to sacrifice the advantages of having the snare between his legs for some comfort, that's his call. It's each drummer's job to decide what's most important for him. I would never put my primary snare anywhere but between my legs. My snare drum is my most important component of my kit, and the ability to comfortably play it with both of my hands is essential. If he doesn't think it's important to be able to play the snare with both hands easily, then he doesn't have to arrange his kit to accomodate that. So, I suggest putting the snare wherever the heck you want it. Just remember my reasons for putting the snare in the center.
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IncuDrummer
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« Reply #27 on: January 28, 2005, 04:42 PM » |
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thanks everybody, this helped a lot. i'm going to try the convential setup for a while and see how it works out.
one thing, i'm going to get a ride cymbal (and stand) soon and i want to put it on the left side of my kit but where should i put it? left of hi-hat? right of hi-hat? please help, thanks.
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mediablamer
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« Reply #28 on: January 28, 2005, 05:41 PM » |
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Overall, it depends how you plan to use it and what else you have.
Personally, if I had a left side ride, it would basically be a reflection of the ride on my right side. By that, I mean I would hold my left arm at the same angle to play the left ride as I hold my right arm to play the right ride. So, for me, the left ride would be just to the left of the hi-hats, at about the same height. I would use a left-ride for a few different purposes. I'd use it as an alternative to the right ride, for effects that involve playing notes on two distinctly different ride cymbals, and as an effect crash. If your purpose for the ride is different, you might want it in another location.
I recommend experimenting with different places that you can put it and thinking about how the location effects your ability to use it.
I hope the snare repositioning works for you. It was never a problem for me because a comfortable sitting position for me already has my legs wide enough for it.
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sirdrumalot
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« Reply #29 on: January 28, 2005, 07:39 PM » |
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Try it. If it suits you, fine... but be willing to change back, like Mr. Acro said, we have to be comfortable with a "conventional" setup. And I'm sure it very rarely happens that someone has trouble playing on a normal setup, it is that way because it's very easy to get around, and adaptable. Sure... you can put your snare to your left, but if that's your primary snare I'd immediately assume that it's going to be a stretch from the ride.  Also, playing tom patterns with your left hand would be almost impossible. As you have the risk of slamming your hand on the hi hats, and not being able to reach over to the toms. |
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IncuDrummer
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« Reply #30 on: January 28, 2005, 07:43 PM » |
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i changed to the convential setup and i have to say...it rocks!
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Mac
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« Reply #31 on: January 28, 2005, 10:05 PM » |
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hey man do waht feels the best. dont let themn tell you to play a certain way. i know that sounds rebellious but do what is most comfortable for you. it would help you in the long run to try it in between your legs for awhile and then if for a long time that is still uncomfortable then do whatever you want.
to each their own
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barefoot
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« Reply #32 on: January 28, 2005, 10:32 PM » |
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I'm late to the dance as usual, but I find myself wondering if a snare drum isn't almost as good to the left - I mean, yeah, it's generally the most important part of the kit, but how often do we play it with the right? If we're classic rock or country, we're slammin' backbeats with the left hand all night. I think auxiliary "popcorn" snares usually end up to the left, too, don't they? I think it would be a legit setup if you're not tied to the conventional.
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IncuDrummer
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« Reply #33 on: January 28, 2005, 11:08 PM » |
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turns out i was wrong, conventional is 10 times better, it makes it easier to reach all of the other drums and just looks cooler  |
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sirdrumalot
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« Reply #34 on: January 29, 2005, 06:05 PM » |
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I only thought you put it a little left, but to the right of the hi hat? I'd get back problems.
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IncuDrummer
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« Reply #35 on: January 30, 2005, 01:04 PM » |
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Overall, it depends how you plan to use it and what else you have.
Personally, if I had a left side ride, it would basically be a reflection of the ride on my right side. By that, I mean I would hold my left arm at the same angle to play the left ride as I hold my right arm to play the right ride. So, for me, the left ride would be just to the left of the hi-hats, at about the same height. I would use a left-ride for a few different purposes. I'd use it as an alternative to the right ride, for effects that involve playing notes on two distinctly different ride cymbals, and as an effect crash. If your purpose for the ride is different, you might want it in another location.
I recommend experimenting with different places that you can put it and thinking about how the location effects your ability to use it.
I hope the snare repositioning works for you. It was never a problem for me because a comfortable sitting position for me already has my legs wide enough for it.
don't you use the ride cymbal to hit instead of a closed hi-hat? |
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mediablamer
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« Reply #36 on: January 30, 2005, 01:28 PM » |
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Short answer: Yes. I use the right cymbal as an alternative to a closed hi-hat. Long answer: I use the ride cymbal as a ride cymbal and the hi-hats as hi-hats. Thus, I would also use a left-side ride as a left-side ride. These definitions will vary based on the styles of music you play, how you like to use cymbals, and many other factors. I mean, yeah, it's generally the most important part of the kit, but how often do we play it with the right? If we're classic rock or country, we're slammin' backbeats with the left hand all night. What about fills? I use the right hand on the snare drum for almost every fill that I ever play, and I need both of my hands in a completely natural position so I can execute my full repertoire of rudiments with ease. |
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groovin
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« Reply #37 on: January 30, 2005, 09:50 PM » |
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Im thinking about trying a remote bass drum set up.Putting my toms on stands,Placing my floor tom in place of my bass,Thus allowing me to bring in my ride closer to me.Also will keep me from having to do cross overs to my right.I t may sound WACKED! But I like to think out of the "box".If it dont work,it dont work.  |
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greg
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« Reply #38 on: February 11, 2005, 01:40 PM » |
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I only have this problem with bigger bass drums. When I'm playing on the 24 inch kick, there's no way I can put it right in front, or else I'll barely be able to reach the bass pedal.
I have a 24" kick and don't have a problem with the snare between my legs. I position the snare over to the left, just a tad, and can reach the kick pedal easily. Of course I play with the snare pretty high and on a slant and my legs are pretty long, but that doesn't help you any, huh? |
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buzz57
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« Reply #39 on: February 14, 2005, 10:06 AM » |
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Has there ever been a "post a pic of your setup" here? Just curious, as it would be interesting to compare the various configs.
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Drum! Its the most exercise you'll ever get while sitting on your ass.
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