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Author Topic: Djembe as kick drum  (Read 764 times)
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DRWM
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« on: February 11, 2005, 04:56 PM »

Does anyone know of a cradle or some kind of adapter to play a djembe with a kick pedal?  

I've always wanted to try it because of the deep bass tones I get with mine.
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Chris -
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« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2005, 06:26 PM »

Use a danmar riser, or DW's tom tom riser.  Hot Dog this is my 100th !!!!!!
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« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2005, 12:30 AM »

Two problems.

For one, you're unlikely to get that deep bass note with a beater, especially a hard beater.  Try hitting the center with a drumstick or a mallet and see what happens.  You'll be surprised.

Also, djembes have goatskin heads, which would last about five minutes if struck with the force of a kick pedal.

My suggestion would to use the right tool for the job.  A kick drum.
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« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2005, 10:37 AM »

The Danmar wont work because its designed for a drum with a uniform diameter down the depth.   The DW would work as it has adjustable posts.   And whatever one it is Bart got for his kit obviously works.  

You didn't specificy what drum you had, or if you'd be willing to buy another.   So if you're worried about the durability of the goat skin head, there are always synthetics.
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« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2005, 12:06 PM »

Huh, I've been using a djun djun for a kick in my conga setup with a dw double pedal for about 8 months now..

I use a folded blanket to support the drum and raise it a bit. This works fine for me.

The head on the drum has fur which has all worn off where the beater hits. I hope I do not poke a hole as it is rope tuned and would be hard  to replace. Are djun djuns usually cow skin or goat?  ... it looks like cow to me.

This setup has been real fun for me ... I also have a cow bell on the right and a jam block to the left, with three congas above. It has been fun doing rock drumset style foot and hand combinations between the djun and conga.

One thing I like doing a double shuffle with my feet and improvise a boog-a-loo on top, something I call my 'George of the Jungle'. It is funny the effect it has on kids, they can't seem to help themselves, they start bouncing around doing a wild dance, hand springs and cartwheels and laughing. I've seen it different times with a couple of groups of children, its fun to make 'em dance.
 Smiley
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ritarocks
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« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2005, 01:56 PM »

Forgive me if this is a little off topic, but this thread reminded me of several years ago, when the group of hand drummers I ran with at Festivals and I played in the wedding of another one of our fellow drummers.  It was so cool.  It was outdoor in thea beautiful garden at the Texas Renaissance Restival.  All of us drummers <about 15> lined up along the aisle facing each other,  armed with djembes, and as the bride walked by, we all played along to the "Lion King".
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B-cero
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« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2005, 02:00 PM »

George of the jungle! great rhythm...a good alternative to comparsa for your conga line...Doesn't Bart have a bass pedal djembe set-up?  The dun-dun bass pedal seems more natural, usually is cowskin so more durable.
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« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2005, 02:16 PM »

Just wanted to point out for those unfamiliar with such things that a djun djun is designed to be struck with a stick, and to have a deep bass note.  They also typically have cow heads, which take that kind of beating much better than the thinnish goat heads found on a djembe.

To get the bass noteout of a djembe, you have to strike it with the flat of your hand, or equivalent.  Striking it with a stick will produce a bright pop, not a bass note.  I suppose you could tune it down to a bass note, but I suspect you'll only get a very dull thud with the head that slack.
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« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2005, 02:49 PM »

Just wanted to point out for those unfamiliar with such things that a djun djun is designed to be struck with a stick, and to have a deep bass note.  They also typically have cow heads, which take that kind of beating much better than the thinnish goat heads found on a djembe.


Good, maybe my setup will last for a while. The djun djun is 14" in diameter, and the blanket I have rolled up under it does not raise it enough to be struck dead center, so the tone suffers. It is good enough for the price though, and I like the low tech look.

George of the jungle! great rhythm...a good alternative to comparsa for your conga line...Doesn't Bart have a bass pedal djembe set-up?  The dun-dun bass pedal seems more natural, usually is cowskin so more durable.

I don't know if my George of the Jungle is the real George or not, I just call it that. Smiley It is really just an improve based off a 3-2 clave over the double stroke foot shuffle.

I really have spent a lot of time since June on my footwork, the bell and clave parts are coming along and I'm getting so I can solo across the top. I'll be a 'one man drum circle' by the time all this gets done. When I play figures, breaks, and endings together between the djun and conga you better believe it sounds tight, just like it is the same guy playing each part.  Smiley The clave I'm holding with my left foot and I vary the bell with paila or just a 1 & 3, which drives it nice but is difficult itself in its simplicity cause it contrasts so much with the sycopated parts. Playing a guaguanco with the hands and laying a 1 & 3 bell with rumba clave sounds sooo funky... I got there by slowly working in exact beat placement into the hand parts.
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« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2005, 04:36 AM »

Here's a photo of a set-up I used about a year ago which incorporated a Djun-djun ... played with a Kick pedal. The cradle I used is made by Mountain Rhythm.



The problem with finding a good cradle, kick/tom riser, whatever you want to call it, that will work for a Djembe is that many of these devices are not design to work with odd shaped drums. My cradle works great because the four arms that hold the drum are independent of each other.

I recently saw a very nice cradle that I think I would highly recommend. I believe DW makes it, but I'll have to go back and check it out. Anyway, what's nice is that this new cradle is designed to handle all kinds of drums, and even has a center section that swivels, so it should easily hand drums with narrow throats/necks (ie. Djembe, Klong Yaw, Ashiko, etc).

The Djun-djun, when played like a Kick drum, sounds good with a standard felt beater. You can visit my website to hear what my drum sounds like; just view the video clips on my demo page. I've also posted some MP3 files in the past (here at the Drummer Cafe) from various recordings I've done using the Djun-djun as a Kick drum.

The problem with using a Djembe as a Kick is two-fold. As already mentioned, the drumhead on the Djembe is typically goatskin, which is thinner than calfskin, and the drum is designed to be played with the hand (Djun-djun is played with a stick). So using a standard felt beater on the Djembe just doesn't sound right ... and nothing close to subbing as a Kick drum (in my opinion). I created my own beater for the purpose of playing the Djembe as a Kick drum. The beater is large and flat, created to resemble a human hand, and thus does a better job of producing bass tones while using a Kick pedal. The second issue, which I alluded to earlier, is that the Djembe is shaped in a way that doesn't allow it to be cradled by just any stand or riser.

I'll check on that new DW riser/cradle that I saw ... confirming the brand (it may be a Gibraltar product) ... as well as where you can pick one up. I suspect that this was a new item at NAMM 2005.
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ddrummerr
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« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2005, 01:24 PM »

I know this may be a bit off topic. I frequenly use a djembe for base notes and do use sticks and beaters on it ... hard.  I have a 16" Remo that I've peeled the top layer off of. It"s cranked up just short of dropping the lows,  has screamer high tones and visceral lows. Way more range and nuance than afro djembes. And .. here in Oregon, I can play it in the rain

As for a cradle, with the aid of a jig saw a half handy person could make a knock-down plywood cradle with velcro hookies on the bottom. Strap the drum to it with a cargo ratchet. Sounds like a small biz opp.
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« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2005, 01:55 PM »

I know this may be a bit off topic. I frequenly use a djembe for base notes and do use sticks and beaters on it ... hard.  I have a 16" Remo that I've peeled the top layer off of. It"s cranked up just short of dropping the lows,  has screamer high tones and visceral lows. Way more range and nuance than afro djembes. And .. here in Oregon, I can play it in the rain

As for a cradle, with the aid of a jig saw a half handy person could make a knock-down plywood cradle with velcro hookies on the bottom. Strap the drum to it with a cargo ratchet. Sounds like a small biz opp.

Yes ... I use all kinds of apparatus on my Djembe, but if you use the Djembe as a substitute Kick drum, it just doesn't sound good with a hard felt beater IMO.

The cradle you are describing to build is fine, but the point is that it's not very versatile. You'd have to be a little more creative than that if you want the cradle to work with various drums ... and for me versatile is the name of the game!
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« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2005, 02:53 PM »

..... I frequenly use a djembe for base notes and do use sticks and beaters on it ... hard.  I have a 16" Remo that I've peeled the top layer off of. It"s cranked up just short of dropping the lows,  has screamer high tones and visceral lows. Way more range and nuance than afro djembes. And .. here in Oregon, I can play it in the rain .........

Welcome to the forum ddrummer!  Smiley

I can testify to the dominating bass he generates with his 16" remo djembe, the man has got the beat. Mike is my good friend and I have played with him maybe 14 years now around the Eugene Saturday Market and the Oregon Country Fair. He is an integral part of our street corner rumba band 'The Gringo Starrs'. The man knows how to lay it down.

I'm glad to have one of my own here on the forum!
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DRWM
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« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2005, 12:49 PM »

I should have been more clear with my initial post.  I have a 14" Remo Djembe with Remo's synthetic head.

Thanks for all the replies folks.  After reading here about the DW cradle, I looked it up, it looks like it might work.  I like your suggestion ddrummerr, of making a cradle out of plywood, that seems cheaper in the short run. Smiley  If the drum sounds good, I'll probably end up getting the DW cradle because it can be used for a bunch of different drums.

What about using one of those big, puffy wool beaters?  Won't one of those work?  Bart, do you have a photo of the beater you made?
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ddrummerr
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« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2005, 02:28 PM »

One of the key ingredients in bringing out the base of a Djembe with a beater is to keep the contact time to an absolute minimum. Think actively bouncing a flat hand off the drum. A fuzzy beater deadens the attack and delays the envelope by milliseconds thusly causing an entropic latency for those folks locked in on the base note peak. In a drum circle or percussion ensemble an unlead slow attack base drags the whole deal. Most circle drummers don't seem to know why that happens. When the guitarists tell the drummer that he's(she's, it's) dragging, the slow peak of the kick envelope is usualy the culprit
Of course, us pafessionals know how and when to lead the beat and keep the track wack don't we.

Street Cred. My first drum gigs were playing a marching rudimental Base Drum in a Latin Drum and Bugle Corp in upstate N Y in the early 60's (the Matadors)

Thanks for the op to drag on    and   on
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« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2005, 02:43 PM »

What about using one of those big, puffy wool beaters?  Won't one of those work?  Bart, do you have a photo of the beater you made?

Any beater will "work" ... but sound wise you really need a beater that make contact with a large area of the drumhead. The "big, puffy wool beaters" make more contact than the average Kick drum beater, but it's not going to even come close to covering the surface that your hand could. This is why I created my beater, which I don't have photos of at this time ... for several reasons ... one being that I may (or may not) try to market it.  Grin
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DRWM
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« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2005, 02:50 PM »

I hear what your saying ddrummerr, I just wasn't sure of how the beater's texture would effect the drum's sound.

You marched in the Matadors? That was some cool stuff.  I have some video of those old corps from the 60's and 70's.

I marched in the late 80's and early 90's.  I taught with Pacific Crest in Diamond Bar, CA from '95 - '00.  I was the Bass Tech.

Anyway, thanks for the input. Smiley
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DRWM
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« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2005, 02:55 PM »

I gotcha Bart, if you need a beta tester let me know! Wink

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