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Author Topic: Why are Nashville studio drummers so highly regarded?  (Read 701 times)
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Ignatz
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« on: February 13, 2005, 02:37 PM »

The latest issue of Modern Drummer has an article about how Tim McGraw's touring durmmer waited something like 10 years before he was considered "good enough" to play on the albums themselves, and this got me wondering, not for the first time, why the world of Nashville studio drummers is so small and elite, and hard to break into.  

What am I missing about C&W drumming here?  I admit I'm not a huge fan of contemporary country, but *most* of the stuff I hear on the radio is, well, dirt simple in terms of technique.  Usually it's 4/4 or 3/4 time, only a few tasteful fills, get-the-job-done workmanlike stuff.  I admit there's a lot to be said for simplicity (Ringo, how I worship at thine altar), but that doesn't explain, at least to me, why it's so hard to break into the studio scene, and why some guys try for years and can't seem to do it.  

If C&W involved weird time signature changes, "Moby D." drum solos, or jazz-like improvisation, I'd be a little more in awe of these studio guys.  As it is, it just sounds to me like they knew the right people and got lucky.  

Somebody tell me why I'm totally wrong here.  Smiley

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Chris Whitten
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« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2005, 02:54 PM »

I think it's more that there are very few job openings, rather than they are some kind of chops chiefs.
Playing in Nashville is a highly complex skill in itself. The drummers who are established and have a reputation are pretty much doing all the work. So you have to wait until you get a break. Once you get a break, you have to seriously impress in order to get asked back. If you don't quite cut it, you might as well forget it.
One of the great things about 'country' drummers is they play for the song.
You talk about 'weird time signatures' and drum solos, but that just illustrates why 90% of drummers wouldn't make it in Nashville (myself included).
Until you can play a simple 4/4 beat, rock solid, make it sound convincing, make it sound emotional and full of spirit, you'll probably never get hired by a Nashville record producer.
It's harder to play simple than it is the fusion type stuff IMO.
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Mister Acrolite
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« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2005, 03:01 PM »

Ditto what Chrisso said. Unless you've ever been in the studio trying to make an ultra-simple groove sound as good as say, Paul Leim, Eddie Bayers, or JR Robinson makes it sound, you may not have an appreciation for how hard it is to play simple.

It's hard. REALLY hard. I've been playing professionally for 30 years and have done records with major artists, but I don't even know if I'm good enough to track in Nashville. The level of precision on the top records is just plain scary, while still managing to sound human.

Again, do some record dates and you'll probably begin to see what I mean. Just listening to country, it's easy to say "that sounds simple enough." But trying to play that flawlessly, with so much feel and groove, while keeping absolutely metronomic time, is not an easy thing.

It's subtle stuff we're talking about here, but it's a mistake to think that it's easier to play a quarter note than it is to play a bunch of 32nd notes - it's not.
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Ignatz
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« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2005, 03:17 PM »

Thanks for the replies, guys.  There is something to be said for 'consistency in simplicity'.  Good point.  

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Chip71
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« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2005, 03:21 PM »

Boy, I couldn't agree more....I've played a ton of country. It took years to learn "where not to play." A couple years ago I went into a Minneapolis studio and worked with a group. After it was all done the engineer said, "You should go to Nashville, you have great feel for that music." I said, "No way, I'd have to bang heads with the guys that already have that market locked up." He said he had never met a drummer who could play simple like that. Believe me, it took years to get the country feel right. I've made more money playing country than anything else over the years. It wasn't intended, just happened that way. If I ever got to Nashville it would be purely by accident. Altho, I have stopped there for food, gas, and motorhome parts.    Cheesy
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« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2005, 04:55 PM »

Nashville studios do more than just country music. But aside from that, one of those studio drummers (I think it was JR Robinson who I think moved to LA some years ago) said that he makes his living "playing a 2 and 4" groove. He makes it sound pretty simple, but he can play a "2 and 4" groove a billion different ways. These guys aren't just great drummers, they are great musicians. I saw JR in clinic. He has amazing technical ability. He can play straight eighth notes or swing them or any where in between as easily as I change tempo on a metronome.
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DrumDude
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« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2005, 07:24 PM »

I don't have an inside on drummers in Nashville..but I have as well played a lot of of C&W gigs. I have classic rock flowing in my veins but have the older country as well. when playin c&w out in a dance venu, the dancers want to "feel" where that beat is. the flashy stuff doesnt cut it with them, the guitar/fiddle/steel/piano can be everywhere and sometimes the words are even lost, but if the beat is not there and solid, you won't be asked back. i'm just a hired-gun for the most part, lots of bands call me to fill in if their normal drummer cant make it, so being able to play simple beats keeps extra jobs coming in.

playing simple also gets me blues band gigs as well. i've seen flashy, excellent rock drummers "fight" the beat of blues. I am working on trying to be well rounded in all, but have realized my niche is still country.

there is a difference in the "pop-country" versus "traditional-country" as well.

listen to what is there and not there...opens up my feel alot.
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felix
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« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2005, 08:06 PM »

I agree with Mr. A and the guys know that I'm not a brown noser around here *for the record*- playing simple is a LOT harder than playing complicated.  At least it is for me.   When I'm ready for more complicated stuff and I bet I could play circles around a lot of cats- I'll tackle the off speed gobble dee gook again.  But right now 2&4 is all I can handle.
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« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2005, 10:19 PM »

I think Chrisso summed it up pretty well here.  I have nothing to add-
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oxford
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« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2005, 09:46 PM »

Which brings up that mystical X-factor -- feel. Smiley
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Chris Whitten
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« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2005, 10:18 AM »

Which brings up that mystical X-factor -- feel. Smiley

Yeah, it's a good point.
Feel is often something you can't put your finger on.
I definitely have a post-punk, white boy drummer feel. I've played on a few records. No one has ever questioned my feel on the mainstream rock and pop music projects I've worked on.
My first love is funk though. I played it and listened to it almost exclusively through my teen years, but professionally I've never been called back from a dance music audition.  Huh
I've worked on projects programming drums for dance music. I've worked hard and studied on the programming side of things and yet the dance artists have told me the 'feel' didn't feel right.
They've edited my work until they were happy with the groove, but I couldn't hear any difference. I know it wasn't just them being difficult, because I've had the same experience with other people.
Sometimes you just can't hear where you are going wrong.
Likewise, I've worked on non C&W music with some artists and producers who have worked in that scene a lot. Their comments led me to believe I'd have a very hard time surviving in Nashville.
The drumming sounds like 1 & 3 on the bass drum and 2 &4 on the snare to me. That's bread and butter to me. However, if the producer tells you the 2 & 4 aren't quite in the right place, what do you do?
Remember, it's dog eat dog out there.  Wink
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vertijoe
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« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2005, 04:08 PM »

Yeah, it's a good point.
Feel is often something you can't put your finger on.

When I was a mere lad, I was hired by a dance band that did a lot of old R&B.  Like early 50's R&B; lots of "Big Joe Turner" and stuff.  I spent months working to get that "Fat-back" beat (as the bass player called it).  Now, it's all I can play.  I don't think I could play on the beat, and heaven forbid on top of the beat if I had too.  We've got a swing tune on the new CD, and I step all over the thing.  Just not that smooth on top swing at all.  I probably should have brought Roger Beverage in to do that tune... there's a boy who can swing.

Anyway, feel is what it takes to run with the big dogs.  Yip, yip.   Grin
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Roger Beverage
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« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2005, 04:30 PM »

We've got a swing tune on the new CD, and I step all over the thing.  Just not that smooth on top swing at all.  I probably should have brought Roger Beverage in to do that tune... there's a boy who can swing.


"All you have to do is call"  James Taylor, 1960 something

Roger
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drumz1
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« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2005, 07:53 PM »

Unless you've ever been in the studio trying to make an ultra-simple groove sound as good as say, Paul Leim, Eddie Bayers, or JR Robinson makes it sound, you may not have an appreciation for how hard it is to play simple.

It's hard. REALLY hard.

I couldn't agree with you more, Keith - it's really hard to be consistant and drive nails the way that Paul Leim does.

For an example of how well he can groove to a country song, check out this link:    

          http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/PaulLeim.html

The first part of the video is a short solo, followed by a "train beat" groove that just won't quit.  Try doing what he does on that song - it's a whole lot harder than you might think it is (BTW, the video plays much better on your PC if you download it to the hard drive first).

I can tell you from almost 40 years of experience, playing a solid simple country groove is some of the most challenging drumming you'll ever do.

Regards,
drumz1
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