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Author Topic: looking for a "Motown" tambourine  (Read 716 times)
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OldGuyAl
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« on: September 30, 2005, 08:44 PM »

I'm looking for a tambourine like the one that Jack Ashford played with the Funk Brothers back in the Motown days.

I can't find a clear picture that shows me details or even hints of details of what the man was playing back then.  (BTW - if you haven't seen the movie "Standing in the Shadows of Motown" then you are really missing something!)

I've found conflicting reports about how it was just a cheapo tambourine but Black Jack could make it sound fantastic and others saying that it was a high-end concert model from Grover.  Anyway, I don't know what to think (other than to agree that Black Jack could probably make any tambourine sound great!) but, since I ain't no Black Jack Ashford, I'm willing to spend some money to get as close to that sound as my limited talent will get me but I want to start with the right instrument.  I'm willing to buy a Grover if that's what I need.  I'm also bidding a several tunable, double-row vintage tambourines that I've found on eBay since none of them are all that expensive.

Any ideas?  Suggestions?
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« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2005, 03:35 AM »

Wow ... I'll have to check on this.

Almost every Tambourine is going to sound different based on the type and number of jingles/zils used as well as the drumhead on the instrument.

Was Grover even making Tambourines back then? There's another thing to research.

My guess would be that it was a cheap Tambourine ... and if it was a "name brand" instrument, I would have guessed Ludwig.

I've seen Jack Ashford play with the Funk Brothers, and I never saw a Grover tambourine. I'll check out Standing in the Shadows of Motown, I've got the DVD right here.
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mbarker12474
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« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2005, 11:26 AM »

from
http://www.bbc.co.uk/manchester/music/2004/02/02/funk_ashford_jones.shtml

"JACK ASHFORD (Vibes and tambourine)
Tambourine might not sound like an important instrument was but it was central to the Motown Sound. Listen to the beginning of "Heard it Through the Grapevine" or "Dancing in the Street"
Jim Clarke talked to Jack.... "


"on... the tambourine sound:
"The boss of EMI here in England back in the early days said Motown would never sell in Britain because the tambourine was too loud! The reason it was so loud was a simple one…there wasn't enough mikes in the studio for the tambourine so I had to sit in the drum booth with Benny (Benjamin) . As the session went on I was edging closer and closer to the drum mikes because I was watching what the guys were doing. So when it came to mixing the track they couldn't turn the tambourine down without turning the drums down..then they realised they liked the sound they were getting, so it stayed that way.!"


from
http://www.themoviechicks.com/nov2002/mctstandinginshadows.html

"Question: How long were you with Motown? When did it start and when did you leave?"

"Jack: Marvin Gaye took me there in 1963 and when they shut down, I stayed until '75. I only went there to spend about 8 weeks with Marvin, he was going on tour, but after the Funk Brothers heard me play vibes, they invited me to work at the club thing and then they worked me right on into the studio. Cause I had a bag of tricks. The competition was keen, when I was there, there were other vibe players floating through. I was plotting. I came up and hit them from so many angles they had to keep me. I put that first tambourine on them and I was the first guy in the world, and I knew I was in then. I started developing the tambourine; the vibe became obsolete as far as my skills were concerned. They could hire somebody to play vibes, but they couldn't hire anyone to play what I was doing with the tambourine."

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TeReKeTe
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« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2005, 08:00 AM »

not a clue but @$%#, they sound good.  I think the one in SitSoM has a skin head?

you might have some luck w/a pandiero, if the concert tamb's aren't giving you what you want.
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Isaac
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« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2005, 11:58 AM »

Hey Al, any luck finding out more
about the Tambourine?

~ ISAAC ~
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OldGuyAl
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« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2005, 07:24 AM »

Hey, Isaac!

Not much luck, so far.  I think I'm going to have to end up going with a Black Swamp or a Grover.  I'd rather have a "vintage" instrument, though.  I bought a vintage Premier off eBay.  It's cool but not the sound I was looking for.  It has a synthetic head that is tacked on and the pitch is too low.  I like the sound of the zils OK - it's double-row nickel (I think).  I only paid about $20 for it and it was brand new in the original box even though it's probably at least 20 years old.   Right era, wrong sound.

Isaac - can you help me re-skin it?   I'm not committed to that but I'm thinking about it.

BTW - I read your other post on the conga heads - good info.  It doesn't apply much to me since you know I'm coming back to you for anything I need in the future - outstanding customer service always wins!  ;-)
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Adam's Dad
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'71 Ludwig Micro-Bop


« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2005, 05:13 PM »

Hey OGA,

As well as the type of tambourine, you should check out the technique employed by Ashford.  I'll bet his technique was influenced by the Gospel tambourine players of the church choirs.  They use several different strokes including striking the tamb off the chest on an inward stroke and against the palm on the outward stroke.  Just check out the local AME church on a Sunday morning (like the one here in L.A. where Jessie Jackson shows up when he needs some media coverage)!!!
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Bart Elliott
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« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2005, 11:46 AM »

Having just reviewed disc 2 of the DVD set ...

The tambourine used in "Standing in the Shadows of Motown" ... the reunited studio scenes for certain ... he's using a Grover Tambourine. This is a recent thing; Grover wasn't making Tambourines in the days of the actual recordings at Motown.
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My doctor says it's bad for my blood pressure if my mind is blown for more than five minutes at a time.
OldGuyAl
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« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2005, 07:38 PM »

Thanks, Bart!  

I've been "away" too long.  Life has been pretty crazy but, I'm thinking Grover is the way I will go.
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OldGuyAl
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« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2005, 10:46 PM »

Update:
I spent way, way too many hours (or maybe just the right amount) shopping for this tambourine and finally ordered the T2/GsPh Grover (double row, combo of German Silver and Phosphourous Bronze) from Steve Weiss.   The Grover "live help" site was great - I was chatting with a guy who plays a lot like I do in terms of styles and gigs and such.  

Anyway, it should be here next week and I'm stoked!  Of course, I expect to spend the next year or more practicing to master the instrument but, I am ready to get started.

I may not post again about this unless somebody has a question so, ask away if you're thinking about spending $115 for a tambourine.  I have some slight concerns about making this thing work in a "live show" setting but, I'll do my best.
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