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Author Topic: Even subdivisions  (Read 303 times)
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Milodrummer
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« on: April 03, 2005, 10:23 PM »

Hi all,

I've been playing for a long time and have developed a solid sense of tempo (I can play well with a click or without and keep a steady 1/4 note pulse), but I've noticed, when listening to recordings of myself, that my subdivisions tend to waver around.  I'll be steady on the 1/4s, but the 16ths within them won't be dead on.  Any suggestions on how I can improve here?

Thanks,
Larry
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B
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« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2005, 11:30 PM »

  Count those subdivisions out loud.
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Jon E
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« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2005, 04:17 AM »

Curious. usually it is the larger notes that get monkeyed up.  I mean, there isn't a lot of time/space to get 16th messed up compared to 1/2 notes and such.

Without hearing what you are doing, it's hard to tell you how to fix it, but LastNight's suggestion is a great one.

Also, get a teacher if you don't have one.
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SteveR
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« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2005, 06:18 AM »

 Count those subdivisions out loud.

Agreed.  Count your notes, count your rests.  Count out fills you hear on the radio.  Count out your steps as you walk.  Count out everything.

It's all about the 1-e-&-a-2-e-&-a-3-e-&-a-4-e-&-a...
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« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2005, 07:33 AM »

Practice with a metronome and a practice pad.  Conciously work on subdivisions you feel weak at.  
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« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2005, 08:19 AM »

Hi all,

I've been playing for a long time and have developed a solid sense of tempo (I can play well with a click or without and keep a steady 1/4 note pulse), but I've noticed, when listening to recordings of myself, that my subdivisions tend to waver around.  I'll be steady on the 1/4s, but the 16ths within them won't be dead on.  Any suggestions on how I can improve here?

Thanks,
Larry

If your sixteenth-notes are not even, then I can almost guarantee you that your quarter-notes are not even either. You may think they are, but they aren't.

Anytime you play and allow for space, that is when you'll move the time around ever so slightly. Playing subdivisions should make your time more precise, not weaken it.

Your internal clock will really develop if you'll practice with a metronome which is also playing subdivisions. Play your sixteenth-notes along with the metronome (playing it's sixteenths). Listen and feel each stroke ... lining it up with the metronome.

When you are playing live, the human-factor will always be there ... you don't have to worry about sounding stiff or that you will sound too much like a robot ... that isn't going to happen, I promise you that. You'll begin to internalize the subdivisions, which is going to make your quarter-note grooves sound even tighter ... simply because you are now feeling the space in between the notes.

Playing subdivisions exposes the timing problems. You can do the same thing by counting out loud. Simply say 1 2 3 4 over and over at a moderate tempo. After awhile, purposefully slow down slightly or speed up slightly. If you record yourself doing this, and listen back, you'll see that it's difficult to hear changes. NOW ... count subdivisions out loud ... 1 e a u 2 e a u 3 e a u 4 e a u ... slightly slow down or speed up. You can REALLY hear the slightest change in your couting. The reason ... there's less space between the notes, which exposes the slightest change much more easily. Do this same thing with your time keeping ... and you see what I mean ... especially if you'll record yourself.

Work with a metronome, as already mentioned, but be sure to spend time with it making subdivisions for you. Also spend time playing with music that is really tight; good groove, pocket, etc. Play along with this, not only on the drumkit, but also your practice pad ... and don't forget about working on your feet.

I've got a product (soon to be released) that will be yet another way to practice this type of thing, and retain the human feel. Stay tuned!
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mediablamer
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« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2005, 12:38 PM »

Practice everything at a painfully slow tempo. Slow tempos exaggerate minor errors in timing, so they force better timing.

Most of this is a simple issue of math. Consider playing at 120 beats per minute. Suppose you play a note 1/64 of a beat late. First of all, for our purposes here, think of 120 beats per minute as one minute per 120 beats. Then

(1 minute per 120 beats) * (1/64  beat) = (1 / 7680) minute or .00013 seconds late.

Now, suppose you are playing at 40 beats per minute, and again you play a note 1/64 of a beat late. Again, think of it as 1 minute per 40 beats instead:

(1 minute per 40 beats) * (1/64 beat) = (1/2560) minutes or .023 seconds late.

In each case, the rhythic error is the same, but the larger amount of absolute time for the error makes it far more noticeable. So, when practicing at faster tempos, it's much easier to assume each note is timed appropriately because the difference between right and wrong is smaller. Whenever I feel my timing is shaky- and even when I don't- I begin with an incredibly slow tempo. Once I'm comfortable with that, I gradually increase the tempo to the desired level. If the slow tempo gives me too much trouble, I start with the fast tempo that seems right, and gradually slow down until I can detect the error.

I don't have any problems with developing an overly robotic feel by doing this. Mostly, it greatly improves my sensitity to time. If I just start playing, I will be very "human," but a simple 5-minute warm-up at a slow tempo can reactivate the sensitivity.
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