I will get some snips of the music on a temp website we have in the next couple of days; maybe it will show what we've been discussing & accurate pointers can be made on the points. Would be useful opinion aswell if people are up for being A&R for a day!

I play in a country/classic rock cover band.  Recently our lead singer has been talking about retiring.  Being in the same band for 20 yrs. doing pretty much the same tunes,  i can kinda understand where he's coming from.  i sing back-ups and a bit of lead behind the kit.  i dont like it but i do it to help out as much as i can.  

anyhoo,  i know another drummer i marched with in high school.  excellent drummer but,  never played in a band situation before.  always by himself, in his basement,  with a radio.   i think that's what made him a very,  very busy player.  i told him (with the types of songs we play) if you're bored with your parts, you're doing the right thing.  that's what my band loved about me,  lay down a groove and let the rest of the band fill the wall.  needless to say they weren't happy with him.

when i play, i dont really listen to me(per say).  i listen to the entire wall of sound.  if i dont stand out in that wall,  i feel im doing my job.  i get my moments and im not selfish.

i dont know what kind of "band" experience your drummer has had,  but it sounds like the same kind of problem my buddy has.  

bottom line,  if he doesn't fit the bill.  you wont be happy.


P.S.  if you live in So. KY area,  i could maybe help you out.....lol

any drummer who thinks playing even a single unchanging pattern for an entire song with a @$%# good groove is boring is not a musician but a self-absorbed egomaniac. sometimes that's what the song needs. you just gotta play for the song, and the songwriter often knows what the song needs best. there's a whole world of nuance inside those patterns.

as he stated: "he's not that kind of drummer".

that's not really what i meant.

nuance is the subtle thing that you bring to a beat pattern which could well be hihat 8ths, kick on 1&3 snare on 2&4. a seemingly simple stock pattern. yet played with feel and emotion that pattern can sustain a whole song. but you have to be into the music, not hung up on the pattern. is that clearer?

I mean that mr drummer man, in say an 8 or 12 bar verse, rather than holding back while holding a strong groove decides quite often to follow me; if you heard the music you'd know what I mean. Imagine a drummer copying all my nuances in riffing cross rythmn playing (I am a polyrythmic player with some of the riffs I write). In soloing that's really cool as it shows that the person is paying attention to the music & not the counts.

And one mans nuance is anothers syncopation. I agree with that. Personally, nuances like odd hi-hat patterns & instinctive dumbing down of the groove (where you play like you are slowing the beat but catching up again) are priceless. Mr drummer is excellent at dumbing down, but not so on the 8th's with the hi-hat yet. It's all a learning experience and I have faith he will learn what's needed. It's just blooming frustrating, but then again, it's about how you get the person to understand what you want that's the key, so I'm working on that.

It may be time, in some senses, to say move on, but where he's good he is ideal. It's just the groove for the songs. But he's spanish so he has a great understanding of latin rythmns and similar, but after seeing Alex Van Halen on a Van Halen Video the other day, it's his interpretation of rock drums that need work. Alex, although for me is quite characterless, has a great feel for rock, with...8th's on the hi-hat every where. The music would drag without it like so many do!

We've decided to start a new song and to play it RIGHT from the first bar, with me explaining what I want for the drums under my song; I had a couple of years worth of drumming before becoming a guitarist, so I hear & feel my intended groove for the parts pretty accurately. Then we'll go back and do the same with the songs we already have, starting from scratch with hopefully a sure technique for making the songs hang together properly.

Any suggestions from anyone about their rehearsal room techniques or principles that have worked really well for them?

The dude doesn't friggin' get it! He's listening to himself play and not the MUSIC. I love to syncopate grooves too. If I could, I'd play every bloody 16th note in every song, but it sounds like crap if you play that way. You're gonna have to fire the guy, unfortunately. Muddy grooves= lousy drummer.

How do you define too much Syncopations? I am curious since this thread seem to be rather serious about the whole issue.

I syncopate my beats too, but as long as I keep proper timing and does not mess up the music, I can see that all is great and dynamic. Obviously when it is time to play short or long fills, I always make sure I don't miss those.
I usually play what I feel is nice and dynamic for the track since I rather be creative than to be a live metronome clicking away monotonously.

My opinion.

I wouldn't necessarily say that they suck as drummers.  But if that's all they live for, if that's all they're practicing, and that's all they're good at - then yeah they're really limiting themselves.  They're not versatile.

First of all, let's get this term straight.......
Definition: A syncopation or syncopated rhythm is any rhythm that puts an emphasis on a beat or a subdivision of a beat that is not usually emphasized.
To my mind this is an idea that is best employed sparingly. One piece of syncopation in a song sometimes sounds genius, the 'less is more' kind of approach. On the other hand, some songs are full of syncopation, especially hard-rock and funk. It comes down to what works.
I took the comments at the start of this thread to mean this particular drummer was syncopating in a manner that distracted from the rest of the music. With that in mind, most respondants seem to have made useful comments.
I guess that's your perogative. In my experience the chief songwriter usually wants a say in the drum part construction. In addition, some other member of the band might have a better or more interesting idea. As the drummer I'm always open to collaboration. None drummers often come up with the coolest drum parts.
I fail to see what bringing up the old prejudice against 'sidemen' has to do with this topic, but since you mention it..........
Many 'sidemen' take pride in their work and reputation. They care about the projects they are involved in, they enjoy playing music and making people happy just as much as career band musicians. What most sidemen do know is that it's all about the music. If they are any good they play for the song and leave their ego at the door.  

Yep.  It's good to be well-rounded, adaptable, versatile.  Makes you more marketable.