Check out Bart Elliott's review of the new Aquarian Hi-Velocity Snare Drumhead on Drummer Cafe TV this week.


Drummer Cafe Community Forum
November 22, 2008, 12:16 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: Win an R-09HR ... click HERE for details!
 
   Home   Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Am I being too hard on myself???  (Read 1680 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
xdrummer2000
Gold Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 717


^My true face, j/k!


« on: April 24, 2005, 02:18 PM »

Ok, here's how it is with me. I've been playing 3.5 years and I am 16 years old.

But I think I may be putting too much pressure on myself. I expect myself to play 32nd notes(where quarter notes equal 100 bpm) perfectly and accurately, as well as hardly ever mess up. I also seem to be comparing myself to professionals a lot. Especially Mike Portnoy, whom I want to be like someday. Is it wrong of me to expect to be really really good, even though I've only been playing 3.5 years?

Do I have a self-confidence problem or something? It's really confusing me. Undecided It also isn't making me feel very good at all. Cry
Logged

"Real Men Love Jesus"
Ian
supporter
Silver Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 267

I really love the Drummer Cafe!


WWW
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2005, 03:13 PM »

32nd notes at 100bpm is very fast in my opinion (over 13 notes a second...). I can't play at anywhere near that speed, and I've been playing longer than 3.5 years. I think you probably are putting a lot of pressure on yourself.

Keep practising, and keep a log which will help you see progress. If you don't play in a band already, I'd suggest playing with some friends (nota Dream Theater cover band). Listen to lots of different types of music, try and draw influences from people other than Mike Portnoy. Have fun.

I don't know if this helps much, I imagine you probably do most of this already, but it's my immediate thoughts on the subject.
Logged
Mister Acrolite
Sous Chef
Platinum Member

Online Online

Posts: 5637


Mr. Positive


WWW
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2005, 03:26 PM »

Is it wrong of me to expect to be really really good, even though I've only been playing 3.5 years?

Depends on how you define it. You're not going to play as well as Portnoy in 3.5 years - that's just not a realistic goal. But you can learn to play pretty well in that amount of time, if you focus on the important stuff.

Be patient. You've got your whole life to play drums. Try to have some fun in the process.
Logged

Hit on 2. Repeat on 4.
(instructions found written on Mr. A's snare drum)

my drummerworld page
oxford
Guest
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2005, 03:29 PM »

You want too much too soon...ahh the signs of youth...don't worry -- you are normal.

Break it down and establish REALISTIC short-term goals and instill a step-by-step method for getting there.

Do not fret about what you cannot do; think how far you have come and feel good about it. NEVER beat yourself up. Stay in the process of deconstruction, analysis, repetition, evaluation and practice. As long as you are working on moving forward at a realistic pace you will not be torturing yourself with negative thoughts.

It's all about patience and determination.

ox
Logged
Mister Acrolite
Sous Chef
Platinum Member

Online Online

Posts: 5637


Mr. Positive


WWW
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2005, 03:33 PM »

Another thing: this word "professional" - don't assume that if you can move your arms and legs at the same rate as one of these guys, that means you're ready to compete with them. You learn entirely different things about drums when you are out there playing for a living, playing shows for money, under lots of pressure in front of different kinds of audiences. No amount of practice will prepare you for that.

So if you want to start comparing yourself to pros, you need to become one. Get into a working band NOW, and start gigging. Then you'll start to get some of the seasoning that can only be earned onstage.

Practice is one thing, playing is another. A pro needs to do both.

If you're serious about this stuff, and aren't already doing pro gigs, it's time to start looking for some.
Logged

Hit on 2. Repeat on 4.
(instructions found written on Mr. A's snare drum)

my drummerworld page
xdrummer2000
Gold Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 717


^My true face, j/k!


« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2005, 06:14 PM »

I also feel as though I don't have enough time to get a gig.

Also, I need to be able to TRUST the musicians that I play with. I played with a small band once for about 2 months, and I quit. Why? Besides hating the music that they played, I couldn't trust them. Also(man do I say that word a lot Grin), whenever I stopped playing, they would continue playing like they don't care about my problem with the song. I'd have to yell and slam down hard on my snare drum to get them to stop. However, in my church band, I started about 2 years ago, and although I had no prior experience with them(besides watching them play), and I wasn't too good back then, I played one song, and I followed through pretty well. See, I need trustworthy musicians, not people who just noodle around on their freakin' instruments for the heck of it. I don't do that. I love playing both by myself(with a stereo), and with others(like in church). But I hate playing with untrustworthy people, and sadly, I have meant up with way too many of those lately. Sorry, but I needed to say that.

Also(oh, there I go again Roll Eyes), this summer I am planning on playing 4 hours a day, as well as practicing in a few needed areas. These include the following. Double Bass Consistancy and Speed, Hand speed and consistancy, and especially, comfort in front of crowds. I also want to practice keeping my tempo. I am also planning on entering the guitar center drumoff in a year or two, and I want to be ready to compete with the rest of the drummers. My drum teacher was a judge in the last drumoff, and she told me that there were a couple of people there who I could have beaten single handedly. While I believe her(she even says I am by far her best student, which should make me feel better about myself than I do most of the time), that doesn't cut it. That makes me better than, let's see...2 or 3 drummers there. There are 5-8 contestants. That puts me in around 4th-6th place. The odds are way too against me in that situation.

Just wanted to say that.
Logged

"Real Men Love Jesus"
felix
Cafe VIP
Platinum Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 8733


Y no keno!


« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2005, 06:55 PM »

Welcome to the music bizz.  Trustworthy is for the boyscouts.

I like you.  You are a nice young man.  But like most of your generation, you idealize things way too much.  The music business is rough, mean and dirty and can make you a mess very quickly.  Playing in church is one thing.  Playing in clubs is another.  And being one of the "greats" is another.  Mike Portnoy payed his dues- big time.

Relax and let it happen.  Keep practicing, stay focused.  I think you should get in a band that plays out.  Even if you hate the music it would be good experience for you.
Don't put any unrealistic goals on yourself.  So what you can't play 16th's at 200.  Double them.

Don't play harder- play smarter!  Make the tough fills look easy and the easy ones look hard.  Learn to groove your butt off.  Get in a dance band.  Learn to enjoy the fruits of your labor in moderation.  Become the man around town.  Go for your own style in your own time.

BTW 32nds at 100bpm is indeed kinda slow... you can stop at 150- 151.
Logged

Yaay!
Chip71
Cafe VIP
Platinum Member

Online Online

Posts: 2555



« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2005, 07:56 PM »

What is this speed thing? Don't worry about it....Play for the music. Have I missed something in my 44 years? Speed never made me a dime. But leaving my mind open to many kinds of musicians and music has opened more doors than speed ever did. Find the old "Less is more" thread..... That will do more for playing than speed. Go, go, go, fast, fast, etc.  Roll Eyes  That's not what music is about. Quality playing, and having a good ear will do more in the long run. Find a band and get some experience being "out there".....  Wink
Logged

"When you quit learning you start dieing"-My Grandfather
Roger Beverage
Cafe VIP
Platinum Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 1152



WWW
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2005, 08:36 PM »

I am not a big fan of unions but if there is one near you, that you can get into, it may help get you introduced around.  Make it known that although you are young, you are tired of playing with mindless punks who don't really care about the music. You may end up playing a  lot of waltzes at nursing homes, or polkas at VFW dances, but it is all part of the learning process of THE BUSINESS.  It usually comes as a shock to shall we say, musicians at the beginning stages of their careers, that chops are secondary to versatility and professionalism.  

Don't beat yourself up comparing yourself to your idols.  Some of us have the gift, the rest of us have to work at it all our lives.  My earliest idol was Gene Krupa, who was not the most technically gifted drummer the world has ever seen, but I still can't make Sing, Sing, Sing, which is not technically difficult, groove the way he did.

I started working steadily at 16 and except for a 20 odd year hiatus, am still playing out about as much as I can handle.

By all means, continue developing your chops.  Use the licks and fills that you can do comfortably that will fit the music you're playing. Don't waste your time on flash that you can't use.

Get out there, be a pro. Beats bagging groceries.

Roger
Logged
altken2004
Guest
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2005, 03:33 AM »

Quote
But I think I may be putting too much pressure on myself. I expect myself to play 32nd notes(where quarter notes equal 100 bpm) perfectly and accurately, as well as hardly ever mess up. I also seem to be comparing myself to professionals a lot. Especially Mike Portnoy, whom I want to be like someday. Is it wrong of me to expect to be really really good, even though I've only been playing 3.5 years?

If it is double strokes at this speed then yes.   For single strokes, good if you can, but not essential.  Every drummer should try to be the best he or she can.  Anyone can become a good drummer if they persevere, but what we can't do is to change the amount of talent we are born with.  If you have the talent of Mike Portnoy then great, otherwise why worry about it?
Logged
Jon E
Cafe VIP
Platinum Member

Online Online

Posts: 2992


This just in.....


WWW
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2005, 07:28 AM »

Quote
What is this speed thing? Don't worry about it....Play for the music.

Amen!

How fast can *I* play 32nd notes?  As fast as needed.  That usually means short "bursts' as needed in a fill or something.

Speed isn't the only indicator of quality.  In fact the two might even be exclusive of each other.
Logged
Tony
supporter
Platinum Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 2176


Art is the expression of the self.


WWW
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2005, 07:47 AM »

Quote
Don't play harder- play smarter!

Good advice.

xdrummer, I think you have unrealistic expectations and goals for your age and experience level.  I won't bother pointing out that speed is the least important aspect of being a succesful drummer, it's been done.  You strike me as the kind of guy who is probably going to end up being blazing fast and superchops heavy, into a very technically precise style of music.  I know a lot players like this, guitar, bass, etc.  I've recorded for these guys and helped with post production on their "self produced album".  The only problem is, these guys headline their basement/bedroom/practice space nightly.  No one knows who they are or how "good" they are because they have isolated themselves musically.

As has been said before, the most important key to being successful in this business is the ability to hang.  There are loads of drummers who are equally adept at playing the majority of music out there.  It is obviously something more than musical ability that gets some drummers call after call, while others get passed over daily.  I've always said that if there is a constant problem in reaching your goals, look at the constant.  If you continually have problems finding musicians you "trust" or feel are good enough to play with, then examine the common factor in all the situations.  Oftentimes, it is going to be your expectations that are holding you back.
Logged

The techniques, though they play an important role in the early stage, should not be too restrictive, complex or mechanical. If we cling to them, we will become bound by their limitation.  Any technique, however worthy and desirable, becomes a disease when the mind is obsessed with it.
TamaDrummer
Silver Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 319



« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2005, 08:48 AM »

XDrummer,
hey man, i know exactly what you are talking about here.  I put goals on myself that are unrealistic, too(i've already realized this).  In fact, i have just about the same goals as you mentioned, but i have only been playing for a year an a couple months!  I think both of us need to ease-up on ourselves and get some much-needed experience under our belts.  

Other than that, keep goin, man.  I will, too.   Kinda nice to have found a sort of "kindred Spirit" (in one respect anyways) here.
Logged

People won't always remember what you said, and people won't always remember what you did, but they will ALWAYS remember how you made them feel.
7lazy8
Guest
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2005, 11:55 AM »

I agree with pretty much everthing that has been said in here so far.

You could and probably will be able to play at the caliber of Portnoy...eventually.  I think it's a good thing that you are setting your ability goals to such a high level.  However, you are being unrealistic with your timeframe goals.   The key word is PATIENCE.  Let's just take away the music biz knowledge for a moment.  You've been playing for 3.5 years right?  It is impossible to aquire the speed, technical, and dynamic abilities of a drummer such as Portnoy in that amount of time.

It sounds like you have the determination, but you just need the patience.  Take it one day at a time.  
Logged
altken2004
Guest
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2005, 12:18 PM »

Yes, and I think it also depends on what you have been doing for the last 3.5 years.  Have you had a teacher for all this time?   If you have and have practised what you were asked to then that would be sufficient time to judge how good you are.  Your age shouldn't make too much difference.  (Tony Williams joined Miles Davis at 17). If you have not had lessons then it is more difficult to say because we don't know what you have been working on - and we can't hear you either!
Logged
felix
Cafe VIP
Platinum Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 8733


Y no keno!


« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2005, 12:28 PM »

I was thinking about this thread today.

If you have not already gotten into some of Portnoy's influences- you should: Led Zeppelin and Rush.  You can't go wrong with those two bands.  And I think those bands/drummers will point you in other directions.

There are so many cool cool bands you can dig on that I think you will find much more enjoyable to play and listen to than Dream The-ate-er (that's what we call them in a hillbilly dialect for fun).  For example.  If you and a friend are at band practice (and this would work at church) and you were rehearsing a rendition of some tune; a fellow musician would turn to you and say in their best red neck dialect "that ain't no Dream The-ate-er".  And you could laugh or respond a variety of ways.
That's what we do anyways.
Logged

Yaay!
KevinD
Gold Member

Online Online

Posts: 648


I love the Drummer Cafe!


WWW
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2005, 02:39 PM »

X,

I think you've gotten a lot of good advice here. I don't want to burden you with anything heavy but, at 16 you are coming to a point where you might want to start thinking about how you want to proceed with music and how much a part of your life it will be.

Do you want to do this full time as a career, or do you want to have a day job and play for fun or some extra cash now & then? Either is great (and there are variations of both), whichever makes you happiest is what counts.

If you want to get into a music school or make your own way to being a pro I suggest worrying less about playing like Mike P. or entering GC contests and really focus more on playing with people and playing out.

You can sit in the practice room all day and become a chops monster but, as Tony says, you risk becoming a one dimensional unknown.

I think the best thing ANY player at any stage can do is get out and play with other musicians. You will improve much quicker and will become much more employable once you do.

Mike P. is a good player but keep in mind, finding a gig where one gets to play like that is rare.

I would start listening to as many styles as you can to become as versatile (and employable) as possible.

While Mike P's style fits their music well, he grew up listening to a ton of other stuff. As Felix suggests, I would start listening to other players and begin analyzing their styles.

One of the best sources for hearing some great drummers and their grooves is Mr. A's "Grooves of Doom" page.

Believe me, the ability to groove is looked upon much more favorably than the ability to peel off blazing 32nd notes. Because being able to groove and play as a musician gets you work.

You may not think so now, but laying down a fat and funky 2 & 4 at about 88 bpm (and doing it well) is just as tough as playing some of that odd-time acrobatic stuff that DT does.

Honestly, a lot of this may seem like work but if you want to head down the road to being a pro then that is all part of it.  

You can also take the other route and just play for the heck of it for a while, that may be the more enjoyable path to take.  




Logged

"If it weren't for Thomas Edison we'd all be watching TV in the dark." - Attributed to various people over the years.

http://www.myspace.com/bigwedge
Mister Acrolite
Sous Chef
Platinum Member

Online Online

Posts: 5637


Mr. Positive


WWW
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2005, 08:17 PM »

You got some great advice in this thread - hope you're paying attention.
Logged

Hit on 2. Repeat on 4.
(instructions found written on Mr. A's snare drum)

my drummerworld page
xdrummer2000
Gold Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 717


^My true face, j/k!


« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2005, 08:26 PM »

You got some great advice in this thread - hope you're paying attention.

I am. Don't worry. This is the part of drumming I'm the most desperate in. I think it was wrong of me to try and be exactly like Portnoy and all those other pros. Let's see here, shall we? I've been playing 3.5 years, and Portnoy has been playing for maybe 30 or so. I think it's pretty much one sided at this point.

Thanks for the advice. All of you are great people. I mean that. Wink
Logged

"Real Men Love Jesus"
Drum4JC (Todd)
Cafe VIP
Platinum Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 1690


Psalm 150


WWW
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2005, 09:21 PM »

Great thread folks, this is what keeps me coming back.    

You're a class act x2000.  Best of luck to you.  Keep us up-to-date!  

Oh, and though I agree that a Church band is not going to give you much of the experience that a true gigging band can give, it can still provide a wealth of experience and be a lot of fun too!  That's been my primary gig for many years and I love it.  

Logged

Coming in 2008:  The Delta-3 Snare Drum by Fusion Drums.  www.fusiondrums.com.  Look for updates here at the Drummer Cafe!
Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.7 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines LLC | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.136 seconds with 20 queries.
Copyright ©2001 - 2008 Drummer Cafe. All rights reserved.
developed by Bart Elliott | Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Site Map