DRUMMER CAFE

Critter-

I'll jump in here and type a hearty HELLO!

I can only answer part of your question, that being I am 38, have been playing since 8th grade HOWEVER never professionally.  No mon, no recordings, well that is a little inaccurate.  The church I belong to which I play for on most sundays DOES televise its services so I suppose, TECHNICALLY I have been recorded.  Was quite strange when last Sunday a lady comes up to me and tells me how great I looked on TV last week.  Oh My Gosh- here I am topping nearly the big 300, what little hair I do have (shut up Bart) is... well... I might as well go all the way and be bald.  What compliment do I get??? I LOOKED GOOD?!  no comment on my playing mind you, just this nice little old lady (Well she wasn't too old I suppose) commenting on my looking good- now I'm pretty certain I've read somewhere that God doesn't much like it when we lie but it didn't dawn on me then to call her on it-hehehehe.
So there you go, a little bio but no real advise for ya but I am sincerely confident that if you hang around a bit it'll come your way.  A lot of drummers here have done just what you are planning to do including our fearless leader and his recent exodus to Nashville.  Just hang in a bit, give people a chance to read your post and respond.  I wish I could be of more practical help, but all I can say is Springfield, Mo is a great place to raise a family and flyfish.  As for music its just the normal local scene for the most part- don't know iof anyone living here who makes a living at performing here unless you live od commute 38 miles south to Branson.

let me just add a little something to benson's post.  seattle might not be the best way to go.  high cost of living, unstable audience, unstable job market.  ive played in, booked, and recorded a number of bands around here in the last 8 years and its a tough town.  lots of interest, just not enough to pay.  there are always exceptions, but they are just that.  

plus it rains all the time

Hey Critter -Welcome to the Cafe'!    Like MVanDoran mentioned- Bart Elliott (alias 'Bartman') owner of the Drummer Cafe has just very recently moved to Nashville.....which is where I suggest we ALL move....perhaps the B-Man has room for 700 drummers in his basement(!?)    My advice is pretty basic -simply go where the scene is stable and thriving.  

i know this couldve been private messaged, but i figured its a decent enough topic.  we can share the experiences in our home towns, etc.

seattle ...  as there are more folks on this board from here than just me, id welcome all thoughts.  but its been my experience that its a good music town.  lots of fans.  but not the best place to do it for a living.   its a town of compromise.  cover charges are relatively low (for live music, often times dj nights cost more !?!?!) ... so you can fill a venue, but still not go home with much.  you get the fan base, but not the bread you know.  theres a market for just about everything here.  ive played indie rock, free jazz, noise, electronica, avant garde, and had a venue and an audience for all of it.  but more often than not, the free coffee or drink tickets and a few bucks is about it for compensation.  

add to that a lot of competition (everyones a freakin musician) the aforementioned high cost of living (thanks californians ) and tough market for getting a day job (obviously not the idea, but its nice to have some backup) and its a tough town.   ive got a few friends who do it.  one tought music theory and upright bass privately and played in tons of projects.  he actually just moved back to new york because it was easier and more productive there (he had moved here from n.y.)  the other is just quitting his day job today.  he plays a lot of one off free jazz things, but his primary band is a college/jamband thing.  they tour the northwest college circuit all the time.  hes planning on getting by by livin with other folks and eating very little.

thats my view of seattle.  great town, great part of the world, but keep your day job

Hey Critter - as far as Chicago, well, I don't know, maybe Felix can elaborate on that scene for you..I know it's a heck of a blues scene. Yeah, everywhere you go is potentially tough...but, I've seen guys fall right into some good situations. That's not the norm...Nashville has the best ALL-AROUND music scene, rock, blues, alternative, pop, you name it, they got it. Now, the problem is there's not alot of money around until you get to the recording artist level, that is, playing with a recording artist, and that's usually gonna be COUNTRY. Even then I've known guys that play only once or twice a month with an artist and barely make some dough$$, ya know?? THERE ALOT OF DRUMMERS IN NASHVILLE, ok? So, be prepared for the long haul. I liked what you said about God's abilities, have faith bro, God has good things in store for you, believe it and be diligent to your talent (devotion). Pray about it...I don't see your comments as self-righteous, as see them as REAL. best to you & let me know if I can help you further.   carlos

I actually looked at Seattle as a potential place to relocate; took my whole family there to visit a sister-in-law and scope out the town.  I quickly had to give it a big thumbs down. I know several pro drummers in Seattle, one of which is Garey Williams who has his own thing going and is doing quite well.

As mentioned, I just moved to Nashville literally two weeks ago, and just this week am I starting to hit the streets and beginning to network. I can't comment on Nashville really because I'm a newbie ... but I CAN confirm what Carlos is saying.

I would live in Nashville even if there was no music scene ... just because I love the town.

One thing that I've run into a lot, which I'm not digging, is a negative vibe about relocating here. EVERY MUSICIAN I meet here in Nashville says the same thing ... "this city is known for chewing up musicians and spitting them out" ... or ... "it's a great town, but be prepared to suffer".  You know, I just don't by that ... and here's why.

We are all different and unique. We each have something to offer musically. So we really can't compare the successes and failures of other individuals to ourselves. I'm a fighter and I WILL succeed here. If someone else didn't, well, maybe they were an idiot and didn't handle themselves well (musically, finances, relationships, etc.). Are there a lot of drummers here in Nashville? Yes there are! But you know what, nobody does what I do just like I do it.

Just yesterday I stopped by a Mars store just to check the teaching rates for the area, as compared to Dallas (it was the same mind you). The manager over the education department grabbed me and pulled me into his office to talk (weird). Anyway, I told him I just moved here from Dallas and here's his response. He looks down, shakes his head, then looks back up at me says "you know, I wish you the best of luck, but Nashville, well it's a jungle out there."  Having heard so much negative vibe the past few days, I just looked right back at the guy, threw my hands up in the air and said, "well .... just call me Tarzan!" LOL  Luckily the guy laughed (whew), but I wanted to get the point across that I'm ready to have at it. I'm not scared by the giants in the land. I knew about all that BEFORE I moved here. I don't need people continuing to caution me and warn me after I've already MOVED MY ENTIRE FAMILY HERE.

Nashville has some of the NICEST and SINCERE people you will ever meet ... but I've got to tell you that I could really live without the discouraging comments. I think they mean it out of love and concern, I really do, but you know what, it doesn't help me at all ... it only feeds the spirit of doubt ... and who needs that.

So ... where ever you decide to relocate ... I think it's wise to do exactly what you are doing. Count the costs, see what giants are in the land, check your pulse and see if you are up to the task. Once you set your mind to it, and you believe in yourself and where you are going, don't look back, don't listen to doubt ... and only move forward.

One more thing on Nashville, after checking into many cities (including Chicago), I found (and can confirm) that the cost of living here is MUCH less than other places, including Dallas. I now have twice the home I did in Dallas ... and the Home Owner Insurance is half as expensive! Car Insurance, Health Insurance, etc., it's ALL LOWER here in Nashville! If anyone is really interested in moving here, I'd be happy to share exact figures with you (via IM); I don't want to publish them here.

Lastly, but not least, I want to publicly thank Carlos Benson (aka bensoncarlos) for giving me some great contacts. Carlos only knows me because I subbed for him once at a church in the Dallas metroplex. Talk about a nice guy! They just don't get any better than Carlos; thanks bro! I'll be making my calls soon!

WOW I just realized I'm writing a book here ... so I'd better stop.

Isn't it great to be alive today?  I'm so giddy...I think I'm going to play flams on my giant step pedal and imagine I'm an amazing player.

Bart, you are going to just do so well in Nashville.  I know it.  Give yourself some time...man, you just relocated your bizz.  People naturally take a liking to you, plus you have someone really huge backing you if you get my drift.  How can you do anything but succeed?
You handled that manager very well.  He's going to remember that.

BTW...Chicago kicks...oh how I would love to move there and get in a hot beboppin' restaraunt crashing, lounge burning trio/quartet.  It's not over yet...my wifey loves that city.

What are we talking about?  Oh yeah, the kid wants to know where to move-  DUH-UH live with your relatives (for free obviously) outside of Chicago till you get relocated and wired in your fav situations.  There, your problem is solved.  I'm telling you- that town has it ALL.
My one friend who I always thought had about as much musical talent as a frog has been making quite a fine living mixing, touring and engineering.

Now you have me wanting to move James!

Whatever you do, don't move to San Francisco. We have a musician's community website here and I posted recently to guage whether or not there's a legitimate scene here for pro drummers. The responses I received were truly depressing. Here's a selection:

I think you answered your own question: New York, Nashville, and LA are *the* three "recording industry" cities, while San Francisco is not. And while NYC may have fewer studios than the other two, the theater scene (Broadway) more than makes up for it in providing work for pros. The Bay Area has only a handful of "pro" studios (Hyde St., The Plant, Fantasy ... that might be it, and only one of those is even located in SF) ... I've known a couple pro-quality drummers in my time here, but the only one who I ever knew to do any actual pro work was one guy who got hired by a Japanese singer to do an Asian tour. -Doug

musically, this seems to be a very small town. as you know studio work is few and far between. steady income would be a better bet from a performing band that does a lot of corporate events, weddings, and other high paid gigs. you could also teach. naturally, both these fields are already crowded, so i don't know if this helps. i consider myself a working musician, but i ain't quit my day job. -Matt

yer dreaming. -David

I guess I'll have to leave the bay area by the sound of your posting, that's just sad that SF doesn't harbor a place for the pro drummer. Hope you find some steady stuff. -Mike

This business ain't about talent, being nice, what kind of @$%# you've done before (here or anywhere for that fact). To prove my point, just turn on your radio and listen to all the crap that's out there. What it is all about is having a good,strong MOJO!!! -Jason

From what I've heard, in San Francisco it's supposed to be next to impossible to make a living playing live, so most guys teach or work in the day. -Mario

What are your rates? I'm in the process of recording a demo and will need a drummer. -Sandip

I'm a pro drummer that recently relocated from San Francisco to Los Angeles. Certainly, the vibe isn't as nice as San Francisco, but the paychecks are a lot better. All that's left in the Bay Area are Church gigs, casuals, and the occasional singer/songwriter session. Definately not enough to sustain a decent living. I was making more money flying to Los Angeles to work than I was living in the bay area. I hated to leave but all I hear now that I'm in L.A is how much people are in need of drummers. -Phillip

i'm a pro level drummer who is having the same problem you are, i'm thinkin' the dot comer's forced all the avenues for musicians to work and make a living(obviously NY is expensive too). -Robin

There is no "pro" or even Musicians scene in this area (SF), only people in bands or who want to be in bands. Sorry, it's been that way for at least 15 years. -(another) Mario

you should have known better. -Todd


I don't know why the hell I'm here. I love the city I guess.

i was actually going to bring up chamberlain and keplinger.  these guys are sucessful, but not in seattle really.  kep's makes a living as a tech and drum maker.  chamberlain tours and does session work world wide.  seattle is simply home base.  

Mark - I'm gonna go out on a limb here and disagree for arguments sake. Geography does matter. I believe it to be the make or break difference in creating an opportunity. Let's take the case of Matt C. He met Stone Gossard and played for Pearl Jam albeit not very long but still it was in Seattle. Two, Stone G. started Loosegroove Records. Three, Crittersbuggin has put out 4 records on that label. Even though the label is gone it created a buzz for Matt personally by showcasing his talents. All of this done in noneother than Seattle. After Edie Brickell and the New Bohemians broke up I never heard any music from Matt for awhile. Critters Buggin was the first thing I heard him on in 2-3 years. Had it not been for that, it might've been longer. So you see, I do think that the little things matter...