Watched DMB Storytellers on VH1 last night and (surprise) he played 'the lick' during Ants Marching.  Made me think of this thread.  

Wow. What a completely amazing player. I was so in awe I couldn't even find the pattern being talked about in this thread. jeez.
 I have that video set--will have to watch it again.

robyn

Greetings -

Today I stumbled upon the Café and began reading this CB thread.  As I read the bradford â€" Mr. Acrolite â€" bradford exchange on 8-18-2005, I was truly expecting the “Oh Yeah …..” banter/crap I run across all too often in forums.  Let me just say how refreshing it was to see someone display some character by apologizing and getting on with the topic of rendering assistance. I am impressed.  So much so I registered just to say thanks.  I am looking forward to participating in this forum.

            Take care,


                          TRB

Alonsochile's explaination of this very, very inflential fusion "lick" is very good.

Unlike rudimental Hertas as linked on the Vic Firth site - this, I believe, Billy Cobham lick is generally played on the drum set (as Alonsochile points out) in alternating single strokes - RLR L RLR L (or the opposite LH lead).

But everone keeps referring to this as being used as triplets - which of course it can be - but that is only scratching the surface. In group of three notes - 3 triplets, 3 sixteenth's, 3 sixteenth-triplets, the first three notes of a quintuplet can be rephrased this way....

Simple example - in 4/4, first play 16th's putting an accent on the first of every three notes (except the last note in the bar) - in other words - accent 1, the ah of 1, the & of 2, the e of 3 and the downbeat of 4. Play 1/4's on the BD or hat to make the implied syncopation obvious.

Another way of thinking of the above bar, is that you are playing four groups of 3 sixteenths, followed by a group of 4 sixteenths (over a 1/4 note pulse).... Now back to the Cobham/Carter lick - just substitute the "RLR L " pattern for each group of "3 sixteenths" - and leave the pattern of 4 as "R L R L".

See how the accents now all fall on the same hand - making it really easy (and powerful) to move to a different drum with each grouping - in a very syncopated fashion with out getting hung up in the R to L off most syncopated accent patterns.

Of course, we are not limited to this one accent pattern - take the bar above - basically 16th's in 4/4 grouped 3-3-3-3-4 and work out the other combinations/accent patterns

4-3-3-3-3
3-3-4-3-3
3-4-3-3-3

etc, etc.

And of course we're not limited to just 16th's - the track Spectrum from Cobham's first solo album of the same title is full of fills based on the same idea as the above - but the groove is really pretty many of the fills use syncopated groups of 32nd's as their basis.

Also the "lick" doesn't have to just appear in constant streams of notes - rests are still allowed. :-)

again over a bar of 4/4 - play 4 sixteenths, followed by a sixteenth rest, then 4 more sixteenths, followed by another sixteenth rest, followed by 4 more sixteenths, then finishing the bar with two sixteenth rests.

Once comfortable with that - then make each of the groups of four - one Cobham lick followed by an accented note. Another way to think of these are the first three notes/the Cobham lick are a group of 3 and the remaining note and the rest are a group of 2.

Now the last phrase has two rests at the end, so that will also be a group of 3 - follow? (This is so hard in text)

This should give us -

first - 4-1-4-1-4-2
rephrased as 3-2-3-2-3-3
or 5-5-6

See why this became a hugely popular, useful lick for fusion music?  While using single strokes for groups of 4's and 2's and the Cobham lick for groups of 3's - virtually any odd-meter or complex syncopated accented figured can be played and/or embellished in an easy, ALTERNATE sticking, strong hand lead fashion.

Lots and lots of recorded examples of this stuff...

Also there is the whole "a few years later" Steve Gadd "hands and feet" thing that is built right on top of this Cobham lick.

But it's 2AM and I'm supposed to be working - - -

and this has rambled on enough.

Have fun,

David

Lindberg711, whilst you're busy "L-ing YAO" you should read the post before you, which was really informative and certainly didn't make things any more difficult. I think we all established on this thread that the lick itself is fairly simple, but most discussion has been about conceptualising and applying it in different ways - in straight sixteenths and triplets, moving the double around the phrase, and moving groups of triplets (with or without the double/herta idea) around the bar.

It's all well and good you pointing out how easy for it is for you to play 32nds and 16ths, but it's much more interesting to hear guys talk about playing the lick in a fill of sixteenths accented 3-4-3-3-3, while keeping the BD and hi-hat pulsing, and chucking the 32nds in any number of different places.

By comparison, I couldn't be less interested in how fast you can play.

Now *I'm* LMAO. Nice reply, Kev.

Kim Plainfeild's book Advanced Concepts has a great section that deals with this lick using different accent points in 3,4,5,6,7 and doubling moving it around the kit. He then does the same thing with flams.....cool section for those that own the book.