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Critter29
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« on: September 26, 2002, 02:27 PM » |
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I thought this would be the best place to post this thread since it ultimately has to do with professionalism of ones attitude and temperance. I'd like hear your all's thoughts, stories and ways you overcame the obstacles and maintained a professional attitude.
Some things I've had to deal with in the past that have thrown me for a loop are working with temperamental musicians who I often notice have great difficulty in communicating. I find that more times than not, they're impossible to please no matter how hard you try.
In one of my old bands, my singer liked to play everything at lightning speed. She would often complain about everything feeling slow. We were a pop/folk band mind you, and she felt that if we sped the songs up to ridiculous tempos like techno music people would get up and dance. She let her adrenaline act as her barometer on what the song really needed. She struggled with the concept of feel and what a pocket is and where the song felt best. In her old band, that's what she was used to so, to her that was the way everything was supposed to be. Naturally, as a hired gun, I'm there to serve her and what she requires but, I can't tell you how many times we'd get complaints about playing our songs too fast. Finally, after months and months of this stuff going on I had a talk with her about it. I tried to explain myself as best as I could. The following year, the bass player and I ended up leaving. It was a gig that had tremendous potential but, it just didn't happen.
What are some things you guys have done in situations like this to overcome the obstacles?
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felix
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first class all the way :-)
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« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2002, 02:46 PM » |
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Quit and find something else.
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Sonor, The Drummers Drum
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563
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« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2002, 03:16 PM » |
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quit and find something else.
exactly.
if its a 'hired gun' situation you stay the course you agreed to ... then quit and find something else. waiting for other people to change is a waste of time and energy.
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Making bad art. Saying stupid things. Implimenting my master plan to be forgotten when I'm gone and forgettable while I'm here. The Luna MothmeTableland |
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Critter29
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« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2002, 03:21 PM » |
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hahahahahahahaha...Thanks for the insight Felix.  and you too Mark. Yeah - I would've quit sooner but, in my area it was a high profile gig that paid well and we had an investor who ended up paying for our recording and funding us to play in Nashville, New York and Boston. The opportunity at the time to me was the biggest I'd had up to that point. |
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daboom
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« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2002, 03:31 PM » |
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Record each show for a week and let her hear it over the p.a. during set up before sound check? If that doesn't work gouge her eyes out with a drum stick! |
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563
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« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2002, 08:09 PM » |
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Yeah - I would've quit sooner but, in my area it was a high profile gig that paid well and we had an investor who ended up paying for our recording and funding us to play in Nashville, New York and Boston.
The opportunity at the time to me was the biggest I'd had up to that point.
then its a matter of priorities. its never as black and white as this, but are you playing for love of music, or for money? ideally youll find a balance. but break it down, everyone has a price, whats yours? some people just love playing and dont care eitherway as long as they are playing, and playing well. those people can make a good living in the right situation. others are really picky about what they play and who with, and often end up needing thier day job. obviously that gig wasnt worth the money to you. sometimes a situation can be really grey and its hard to tell which way to go. unfortunately those often eventually lead to the 'not worth it' side because those things that you thought you were ok with, start to multiply and wear on you. i was in a similar situation as a bass player recently. i came to the realisation that i knew i was going to quit eventually. so rather than prolong the inevitable for both of us i quit. |
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Making bad art. Saying stupid things. Implimenting my master plan to be forgotten when I'm gone and forgettable while I'm here. The Luna MothmeTableland |
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Louis
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« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2002, 08:19 PM » |
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If you are playing for FUN, quit and find someone else. If you are playing for money suck it up and deal with it. My grandpa told me something a long time ago that makes sense. I was about 16 and complaining about a job and he told me thats why they pay you money and call it a job, if it was that much fun you would pay them and call it an amusement park.
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It is not what you have, it is what you do with what you have that makes the biggest difference in the sound!
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DFJLOS
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« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2002, 09:35 PM » |
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I think as time goes on I've learned to sum up the "personalities" of the people on a gig alot quicker than I did in the beginning. I've also learned what my tolerance level is and what I'll deal with in order to stay with a gig. Temperance is a tricky thang. Personalities, business aspects, musicality, logistics...all for the love of playing the drums.I think if you're playing with Joe Cocker and making $12,000 a month, then your temperance level may be a little higher than making $50 a night in a club somewhere. You have to be able to assess a situation for what it is and for what you are striving for, goals. In my case, I absolutely won't work with a bass player that can't "hang" and can't "follow", that's a musical temperance. A business temperance is I just won't work for less than a certain amount of money (unless it's a benefit). A personality temperance is just somebody that lets their personality get in the way of my drumming, professionalism...see? These are just examples, one thing I would tell you is when you recognize a problem for yourself then don't wait til your miserable to confront it, do it, do it now, talk it out with people, but DON'T WAIT! Wasted time, man...oooh, I wish I had all the wasted time back  ....positive surroundings man, hard to find, best to you bro  |
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Critter29
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« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2002, 07:23 AM » |
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[quote by Mark563]then its a matter of priorities. its never as black and white as this, but are you playing for love of music, or for money? ideally youll find a balance. but break it down, everyone has a price, whats yours? some people just love playing and dont care eitherway as long as they are playing, and playing well. those people can make a good living in the right situation. others are really picky about what they play and who with, and often end up needing thier day job.
obviously that gig wasnt worth the money to you. sometimes a situation can be really grey and its hard to tell which way to go. unfortunately those often eventually lead to the 'not worth it' side because those things that you thought you were ok with, start to multiply and wear on you. i was in a similar situation as a bass player recently. i came to the realisation that i knew i was going to quit eventually. so rather than prolong the inevitable for both of us i quit.
That's a great analogy. I think at the time my thinking was the gig seemed like the next step toward climbing the ladder to success. In my area, it was "the gig" to have. Opportunities like that don't come often plus, my singer had connections and had made a name for herself around the area and that was part of the allure of it. I knew several people who were behind her 100% and all of them had, had previous success - albeit on a small level - still, I thought if I don't do this, I'll be missing out on a great opportunity. We actually ended up playing showcases in New York & Boston and recorded in Nashville with a pretty nice sized budget. Looking back on it, I'm greatful for the experience I got from being able to record & play showcases and just learn about the overall business side of things. It was definitely Music Business 101 for me. For a while I thought...ya know - things could be a lot worse... I could be playing for nobody. But your analogy of the "little things" summed it all up in a nutshell. In the end, it killed the band and now she regrets it more than ever. In fact, just two months ago I got a call from her friend asking me to play with her again. I couldn't believe it! I just thought to myself...oh no!...been there, done that. |
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Stefanos
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« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2002, 08:58 AM » |
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I have almost no experience in the "gig" field. I started gigging (playing rock music) w/ a band just 2 weeks ago. A problem has come up so far and I don't think it is small. It has to do with the hour we work. I study history and archeology and I want to be able to wake up early and attend my lessons. However, every Wednesday I come home around 5 am. It's only happening once a week, but I'm sure that we could arrange that. We could be playing 10.30pm-12.00pm and make almost the same money (5 dollars less) as a support band. I tried to discuss it with the band, but everyone seems to have their own reasons not wanting to make this change. The reasons are pretty silly imo: They talk about the "profile" of the main vs opening band or that they don't like to perform in front of less people, etc. I was really trying to discuss this subject, but they didn't give me the chance. I guess the most proffesional thing to do is wait till next September. If they still want to play till early in the morning, I'll quit 'cause in a year or so I'm thinking of joining 3 bands instead of just one and I won't be able to attend my lessons. Sorry if all this is a bit out of the subject!  |
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Drumschris
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« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2002, 11:47 AM » |
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Record each show for a week and let her hear it over the p.a. during set up before sound check?
I've got to agree here. Do some recording live. Show it to her a few days later. I've done this once for a guitarist who always had "relative tuning" - it was ok, but just not completely on. He heard the tape, and admitted he was really embarassed. He went out and bought an attachment for his pedal board that constantly lets you check your tuning ... the next day. Chris |
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Amadeus
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« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2002, 01:55 PM » |
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Most musicians take their music very personally & seriously ( especially if they wrote it , wouldnt you?). Unfortunately they tend to take out frustrations on the rest of us when things go astray. I have run into this a couple of times in band situations, and have found that sitting down & talking about what the "writer"( for lack of a better word) is expecting in terms of the sound & the kind of emotion they want to convey to the audience. Working togethor can really make a kick ass song coming from EVERYONE involved rather that just one person dictating that "you will play on 2&4 this way...." But if the situation is abusive, that is no way to play or work. I'd leave. But that is in a band situation. If you are a studio drummer, you may have to bite your lip & take it, because if you dont, someone else will.. Trust me, playing show tunes for a couple of months is grating ( Try playing Annie songs !! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKKKKKKKKKK KKKK!!,  Tomorrow  ::)tomorrow but as long as I am drumming & being allowed to do what I love, I'll play just about anything . |
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Ratamatatt
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« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2002, 02:30 PM » |
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"TOEMARROW TOEMARROW, IIIY LAV YOW TOEMARROW, IT'S AAALWAYS A DAYIII AWAYIIIIII...." (Where's my pea shooter?).
Ratamatatt
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