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flamgrags
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« on: March 06, 2006, 11:32 AM » |
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I don't break that many sticks but I've been reading posts that say people go months without breaking sticks. On average I break about one every time I practice with my band. Is there possibly a technique that makes me more prone to stick breaking other than hard hitting?
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junglelord
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« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2006, 11:42 AM » |
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do you hit the cymbals with the head of the stick or the edge of the shaft? that could do it, IMO. Just a guess.
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Chris
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« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2006, 01:08 PM » |
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If you're breaking one stick a practice I'd say there probably are some technique issues. The angle with which you hit your cymbals will be a major factor, how you hit your snare drum (rim shots?) etc. Of course, if you're a very hard hitter using 7A sticks or something, it might be worth considering switching to something a bit beefier, like a 5B or a 2B. Furthermore, the brand of sticks will have some degree of influence on how often they break. Generally speaking, the generic no-name brand sticks will last an awful lot shorter than the Vic Firths etc.
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I hit things.
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Jon E
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« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2006, 01:54 PM » |
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Nothing will hasten a stick's breakage (not wearing down, but breaking) like a cross-grain pattern. if the grain of the wood doesn't run the length of the stick--and you are a hard hitter--that stick will have a very short life. Guaranteed.
Add other poor technique/setup issues and they be gone even quicker.
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PJSdrum
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« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2006, 03:21 PM » |
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Please don't anyone take offense at this but my short answer is, yes it is a technique issue. No matter how hard you hit a drum there is a finite amount of volume that instrument will produce. Good technique will allow you to play at all volume levels without causing damage to sticks and heads. If you learn how to draw the sound out of the drum I think you can acheive the maximum volume while not lifting your sticks more than about 8" off the head. I seriously can't remember the last time I actually broke a stick. Learning how to control the sound of your instrument will set you free. It will also save you money on replacing sticks, heads, and cymbals.
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Peter Stoltman
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Mister Acrolite
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« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2006, 03:26 PM » |
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Please don't anyone take offense at this but my short answer is, yes it is a technique issue. No matter how hard you hit a drum there is a finite amount of volume that instrument will produce. Good technique will allow you to play at all volume levels without causing damage to sticks and heads. If you learn how to draw the sound out of the drum I think you can acheive the maximum volume while not lifting your sticks more than about 8" off the head. I seriously can't remember the last time I actually broke a stick. Learning how to control the sound of your instrument will set you free. It will also save you money on replacing sticks, heads, and cymbals.
I strongly disagree, and submit that you'll have a hard time getting hired by a rock band lifting your sticks only 8" off the head. Bad technique CAN break sticks. But playing hard and/or raising your sticks fairly high is NOT necessarily bad technique. 
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PJSdrum
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« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2006, 04:41 PM » |
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Aha pulling the Ted Reed trump card on me huh?  I certainly understand what you're saying and a half million years ago when I played in drum corps the "sticks to your ears" technique was still in vogue too. Funny how Fred Sanford got those early 70's Santa Clara Vanguard lines to play loud enough just playing from the wrists. Anyhow, I think we'll agree to disagree on this one. I didn't think the thread said the goal was to be hired by a rock band. The guy is breaking sticks at what I believe is an excessive rate. He can eliminate or certainly reduce the amount by breakage by not slamming which I suspect is what's happening. Although I haven't done any scientific study of this with the proper equipment I still believe you can acheive more than adequate volume (especially with most rock bands miking the drums) by using good technique. Now showmanship etc. is a completely different matter.
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Peter Stoltman
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« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2006, 07:26 PM » |
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The material the stick is made from will have an effect. For wood, I've found oak to be the longest lasting. I understand some synthetic sticks are extremely tough.
Technique will certainly have an effect. It might be a concept to study technique via teachers or videos, just to maybe get some different ideas in that department.
Trying a different brand or a different size stick might also be a good idea. Sticks aren't that expensive, so you can easily experiment.
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flamgrags
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« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2006, 11:05 PM » |
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Hey thanks for the feedback guys. Btw I use vic firth extreme 5B's. But ya I hit the cymbal with the shaft, but I play punk/rock so the bead doesn't produce a powerful enough sound for the application. Anyway thanks again!
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junglelord
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« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2006, 11:48 PM » |
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lilblakdak
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« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2006, 01:20 AM » |
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Bad technique will break anything. But Like Mr. A said hitting hard is not always bad technique. I play hard, I break sticks, generally across my snarehoop. This isnt a bad technique, its just a technique. I like being a visually entertaining drummer. Gets me lots of work to pay for the broken sticks. 
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Benjamin8888i
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« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2006, 03:38 AM » |
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I have never broke a pair before:D Now I have 4 working pairs and they are hardly damaged with the last two being the most perfect in condition. My Vic Firth's one is still perfect due to perfect techniques of mine!:D:P I just wonder how drummers can break their sticks...makes me think. Because I don't think that by hitting hard correctly on a set can even break one(Atleast from my experience).
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lilblakdak
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« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2006, 08:46 AM » |
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I hit across the hoop of my snare (rimshot( because I like the sound it produces. But I have to pay for that sound by going through sticks. if I didnt use rimshots, which I dont all the time I could get my sticks to last forever as well.
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Rei
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« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2006, 10:14 AM » |
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Hey thanks for the feedback guys. Btw I use vic firth extreme 5B's. But ya I hit the cymbal with the shaft, but I play punk/rock so the bead doesn't produce a powerful enough sound for the application. Anyway thanks again!
If you need volume, don't stike the edge of the cymbal. Use the shoulder of the stick to hit the bow of the cymbal. Imagine that you are trying to connect the maximum amount surface area when you hit the cymbal. The serious question is, do you need this volume for a performance? If not, then tell everyone that has a volume knob to take it down a few notches.
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Tony
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« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2006, 11:08 AM » |
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Please don't anyone take offense at this but my short answer is, yes it is a technique issue. No matter how hard you hit a drum there is a finite amount of volume that instrument will produce. Good technique will allow you to play at all volume levels without causing damage to sticks and heads. If you learn how to draw the sound out of the drum I think you can acheive the maximum volume while not lifting your sticks more than about 8" off the head. I seriously can't remember the last time I actually broke a stick. Learning how to control the sound of your instrument will set you free. It will also save you money on replacing sticks, heads, and cymbals.
I don't necessarily disagree with you in theory. In so much that I don't think you have to be swinging from the rafters to play at loud volumes. But limitng your stick height on a Drum Set is impossible. Especially while striking cymbals. The nature of their general positioning and use in pop/rock music makes them suscepetible to taking a pretty hard impact. I play hard and generally break sticks when they get chewed up around the cymbal striking point. Bad technique will break cymbals and sticks very quickly. And the first excuse from most people is that they play harder than the average drummer, when I have found they don't. They just swing hard with bad technique.
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The techniques, though they play an important role in the early stage, should not be too restrictive, complex or mechanical. If we cling to them, we will become bound by their limitation. Any technique, however worthy and desirable, becomes a disease when the mind is obsessed with it.
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The549
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« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2006, 11:13 AM » |
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I play hard punk and used vic firth rock sticks. My d**m guitar player broke one stick (technique?), though my other one just got so skinny where the cymbal chewed away at it - after about 4 months practicing 2-3 times a week.
You can still play flashy and hard, but there are certain angles that don't increase volume and absolutely kill the sticks instantly. For example - using a poor rebound-less technique while hitting the bell of a ride cymbal with the tip of the stick.
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flamgrags
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« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2006, 03:22 PM » |
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So do you give more of a glancing blow to the side of the cymbal and sort of strike "through" the cymbal, or just hit it in the middle?
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The549
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« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2006, 11:03 PM » |
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For a crash, I hit through the *shouldder* of the cymbal at an angle....meaning I don't force a cymbal to bend like putty, but rather like a cymbal. Basically, the tip of my stick is pointed somewhere OTHER than the middle of the cymbal. You're actually kindof grazing it, but when you get used to it, it *feels* like you're powering right through them.
I'm doing a bad job of explaining but I'm sure someone else will contribute.
For example, I hit my china cymbal ONCE in the "middle" (my stick was pointed at the cymbal's bell and the stick just bashed into the thing rather than "glazed" it)...well, it broke. A cymbal spring and proper technique will cure that.
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TMe
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« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2006, 08:45 AM » |
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When guitar players keep breaking strings, I always offer the same solution; "Use heavier strings, for crying out loud!"
I always get the same reply. "No, no, it's not the strings. It's me. I need to work out my technique."
Great. Until then, though, "Use heavier strings, for crying out loud! Stop needing to replace strings in the middle of every set."
Perhaps the same logic should be applied to sticks. Personally, I love maple sticks. They feel great, they bounce great, they're light, they're easy to hold... But if I'm breaking a stick on every tune then obviously I need more durable sticks.
As for technique, if you're a good Punk drummer, you SHOULD be breaking 5B's. The rim shots alone will chew through sticks fairly quickly. Add to that the fact that cheap drums don't sound good unless you really smack them. If you want to play with a lighter touch and still get a big sound, you need good drums, not just good technique.
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The549
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« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2006, 02:06 PM » |
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...As for technique, if you're a good Punk drummer, you SHOULD be breaking 5B's. The rim shots alone will chew through sticks fairly quickly. Add to that the fact that cheap drums don't sound good unless you really smack them. If you want to play with a lighter touch and still get a big sound, you need good drums, not just good technique.
For punk, you DO need to hit the drums (especially the toms) hard to get a good sound. But hitting skins hard does not break sticks from my experience. My sticks always break on my ride, after being chewed through by the cymbals. My rim shots really don't chew through my sticks, though I probably use much more "shot" than "rim". Of course, I don't use or know how big 5b's are, but I use freakishly large and heavy sticks.  L = 17", Dia. = .695" They're about twice as heavy as normal sticks that most people use....and I haven't broken them yet.
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