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Author Topic: 3 toms to 2  (Read 705 times)
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Shoeless
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« on: May 03, 2006, 07:35 AM »

During this unintentional hiatus from having a working project I have been able to practice and, more importantly, been able to experiment for the first time in years. One thing I have been doing is forcing myself to set up a different way than I am used to, and in turn forcing myself into approaching things differently. Types of things like using the floor tom as a kick, swapping positions with my snare and hi-hat, using different cymbals in different roles, different positions, and grouping cymbals together (a-la Bozzio) for different effects, etc.

One result from this is that I've decided  that I'm going to switch over from 2 rack toms and a floor tom to 1 rack tom and a floor tom. Seems like you see more and more people doing this.

My question is, for anybody who has made this transition, do you find that you avoid fills that you normally did, and conversely have you found fills that work better in this setup that you've never done or been inspired to come up with new fills that work better solely because of this setup?

Its not the seamless transition I imagined it to be after 30+ years of playing the same way (read: now it involves thinking)
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kostas
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« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2006, 07:53 AM »

ofcourse there is a difference. It's a completely different approach , a bit more jazz. So many patterns developed to be played on 2- rack toms 1 floor tom drums won't work out on this new for you setup.
      However, you can always create new patterns, which can be perfectly applied to this new setup. But why changing your existing setup, if the new one simply doesn't feel good ?
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« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2006, 07:57 AM »

Time for a change.
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Mister Acrolite
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« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2006, 08:07 AM »

It can be both liberating and confounding to make a change like that. It can make you aware of how much you relied on certain licks or habits.

I recommend two things:

Don't think of every fill as having to be a descending figure. With multiple-tom setups, that's a very common tendency. But there's no reason that a fill has to conform to that - or any - rule. Instead, start thinking of the individual sounds at your disposal, and try finding new ways to punctuate a musical phrase. Incorporate cymbals, hihat, whatever. Bottom line: there's more to fills than working your way down the toms.

Incorporate your bass drum. With only four drums, you have more limited choices, but on the plus side, each of the four instruments has its own distinctive sound, rather than a group of toms that have a similar tone but differing pitches. I found when I started treating my bass drum as if it were simply another low-pitched tom, I found all kinds of ways to incorporate it into fills. And it tends to give your fills more "umph," since a bass drum moves a lot of air.

Good luck. I've played some huge kits over the years, but my heart always brings me back to the four-piece!
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« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2006, 09:25 AM »

Mr. Acrolyte has it right.

A couple of years ago I had to use a coffee house kit with kick, snare, hi hat, crash-ride and splash.  I was fretting before first set when a jazz drummer friend of mine said.
“What’s the problem? Throw off the snare and play tom fills between that and the kick.” I tried it and it worked great.  Before this I was so convinced that a four piece was the smallest possible kit, I couldn’t imagine what to do with less.  Since this I’ve been more aware of the possibilities of the four piece I use about 80% of the time.  I’ve heard recordings of myself playing with bigger and smaller sets and they’re all good.  We do a couple of power ballads that beg for huge tom fills but I’ve had success by simply playing the first part on the shell tom then the floor and finishing on the kick.  It’s a lower pitched fill but still descending.  A snare with the throw off is a great hi tom or timbale depending on how you play it.
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« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2006, 12:29 PM »

Thank you for this thread!  I have made this switch as well, and find I'm having the same trouble.  One thing I did was as Mr. A said, and stopped thinking in terms of descending fills.  I am also trying to incorporate my kick more.  

It's a fun kind of frustration, since I played 6 and 7 piece sets for so long.  I like the challenge of finding the blend of simplicity and keeping it interesting for the "drummer" in me.
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« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2006, 12:55 PM »

In Levon Helm's video "On Drumming" he talks about thinking of the two toms as engaged in a "call and response".  The rack tom calls, the floor tom responds.  They really are two different instruments, not two keys on a piano or two frets on a guitar.
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« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2006, 01:58 PM »

When I did a 4pc for a while, I found myself using the snare to floor tom for more varied fills. Also fills that started snare to floor to front tom.

Later, using a fusion sized 6pc kit I set up the 12 as my first, primary tom position, THEN the 10", then to the 14 & 16 hanging toms. The front toms were 12x10 & 10x8 slightly ofset to the hat side. I could lower them more over the bass (using a rack), bring the ride in a little closer (towards a 4pc feeling AND the 10 was out of the way of the direct line from the 12 to the side toms.

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« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2006, 09:10 PM »

Later, using a fusion sized 6pc kit I set up the 12 as my first, primary tom position, THEN the 10", then to the 14 & 16 hanging toms. The front toms were 12x10 & 10x8 slightly ofset to the hat side. I could lower them more over the bass (using a rack), bring the ride in a little closer (towards a 4pc feeling AND the 10 was out of the way of the direct line from the 12 to the side toms.

Boomerweps

Kenny Aronoff style.  I do the same thing, except without the 16 tom.  Having the rack toms "backwards" eliminates the tendency for the descending fill as described by Mr. A and others, yet keeps the familiarity of the 3-tom kit in order (for me, at least).  

I spent the first 20 years of my playing life on a 4-piece (2 toms).  Later on I found that I preferred to have the ride cymbal farther away, opening space for another tom.    
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« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2006, 04:40 PM »

When I ordered my new yammies, I went for the 2 tom config after doing the 3 tom thing for 20+ years.  

I found it more liberating.  I feel more creative than I ever have...and yes, getting away from the "roll down" is a good thing!  =)

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« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2006, 07:15 PM »

Even tho I have large sets, last week I cut out some toms and went with one over the bass and 2 floors. No special reason. Just to force myself to be more creative. I sometimes only use a 4 piece, but always have a blast when I go back to the large set.... I've found many times I can get more "color" to my playing by not doing the normal run down. But I've been known to play a gig with nothing but a snare, hi-hat, one ride, and bass drum. Variety is great, and it makes you feel good when you pull it off. But I still enjoy having all my "instruments" availabe if needed for a certain band. I tend to choose the size of my "tools" by with who and where I'm playing. And of course the music of "that particular band." I still like the big set....Always have. When I played a 4 piece for several years I didn't realize how much I missed the bigger set until I got one again. So the "creativity" learned with the 4 piece just made playing the big set even better. I would encourage people to try as many variations as possible. Then when you're on someone elses set at a jam, audition, or gig you can deal with the situation at hand. I love watching guys come out to our open jams when I bring in a big set and make it available. It's interesting, and I can pick out the 4 piece players just about every time. They tend to overfill, because they're having a blast with the different toys at their disposal. Try many variations from small to huge..... It is a joy to be able to experiment with different set ups. Makes you think.   Wink  But I still like the large kit even if it's not the "IN" thing to some people. Everyone's different, it's your choice.... That's just my main choice. Unless I feel lazy that night....   Grin
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SlimChance
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« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2006, 05:49 PM »

"Bottom line: there's more to fills than working your way down the toms."

"Incorporate your bass drum."

Mr A pretty much sums up my approach to fills.  I don't have huge arms and flailing away at a big array of toms has never worked for me.  I've always played a 4-piece, and my fills have never been the "descending down the toms" type.  What I do, more than anything, is get some chatter going between the bass and snare, with some hat action tossed in, maybe one well-place note on the rack.  I guess I think of my fills as less of a big textural change and more about exploring the rhythm.  

Another thing about playing a smaller kit is that you have the opportunity to NOT play notes.  I hate a fill that is just a bunch of 16ths.  Leave some space.  You know who does great fills on a little kit?  The guy from The Attractions- Pete Thomas, I think his name is.  But also, listen to a lot of bop jazz drummers.  Those guys will go to the toms, but most of their fill action happens on the bass and snare.
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« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2006, 05:56 PM »

Another thing about playing a smaller kit is that you have the opportunity to NOT play notes.

That opportunity also presents itself when one plays a larger set.  Wink
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"Less is more."  "Play for the song."  "Smaller setups make you more creative."  Come on, folks - get past the bumper sticker slogans and THINK.  Take some responsibility for your creative choices. 

Stop hiding behind tiresome platitudes.
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