This post indirectly ties-in with Sidereal's post about groove placement etc.

In the August 2002 issue of MD, I read an article on Mike Malinin of the Goo Goo Dolls and he talked about working with producer Rob Cavallo and how they worked with click tracks etc.  While in pre-production they came with comfortable tempos for the songs and set up what they called "tempo maps" into Protools. Basically, they would adjust the tempo of the click depending on what section of the song they were in and whether or not it felt natural.

Prior to the article, I'd never heard of anything like that before and immediately thought what a great idea it was. I've played to click tracks many times, in fact, almost exclusively in the studio but, I've never actually tried using "tempo maps" myself. If only I'd known about this before. There have been several times I've been in the studio and playing something to a click that just didn't feel natural to me at all. For example, a fill would feel very mechanical to me, almost like it dragged...it was in time mind you but, just didn't sound natural in context with the music. This is something I have never liked about click tracks and always had problems with....particularly on slow/mid tempo songs. The groove was fine but, on fills I always felt like I had to hold back. Unfortunately, when I listen to some of my older recordings I can sense this immedaitely. Some of it I realize was just me not playing relaxed and just getting too anxious, so to compensate I would hold back. However, there were other times where the click would take away from the natural feel of the songs. For example, sometimes a chorus needs to push, sometimes it needs to lay back or the outro needs to push and gain momentum etc.. etc. This idea of using tempo maps seems to solve those kinds of problems. It's like it allows the human element to exist within the song and most importantly, not make it to where it's so mechanical feeling.

Have any of you experimented with using tempo maps in the studio before? I'd like to hear your ideas....

I'm at the point now where I don't want to use a click recording...but I'd say to get a live feel for midi sync it might be a good idea.

I'm not into that kind of production myself...really takes the honesty away from a recording IMO.

the only time I use a click, in studio or out, is when I'm playing with a MIDI sync.  It just doesn't feel natural otherwise.

I use tempo maps all the time in the studio to set up ritards, a tempos, picking up a chorus or slowing down a bar. Sometimes .5 of a beat can make a difference. For example, when you play an ensemble passage and everyone is kicking quarter notes, the quarter notes seem to feel rushed if they're played to a straight click, but if you slow down just that one bar a BIT then it feels more natural. The problem with playing with a straight click in cases like that is if you're playing on top or back in the pocket (which generally works fine) is that you're gonna be playing catchup with the click after ensemble punches. I try to take all the guesswork out of the "time" as much as possible as much for me as the other players. But, it's a personal thang as you can see.
blessings, carlos

Sorry, I said play around with the click when I meant play around with the beat while the click remains constant.

You guys are such anti-click nazis. I don't mind them at all. In fact, it's kind of fun to visualize myself actually grooving with the click as if it's a percussionist.

One other thought... Does anyone feel that shifting tempo maps might be screwing with a drummer's sense of internal meter? There's that point about catching up to the click... I guess I'm a bit nervous that if this is done too much in the studio, a drummer might lose his sense of internal time, since there's such subtle shiting going on.

     

LOL! my true subconscious opinion comes out.

I don't think tempo maps or grids are for suckers, I think they're for guys that really want to achieve a "live" feel to a song. Most of the recordings (Top 100)these days are using tempo grids - so there must be something to it. It's called achieving as much natural flow to the groove as possible - first came the click, then came the tempo map, see? sucka .... tee hee ....  

Well, Tony has a point because there are times when I have played to a click and let's just say it had a very real feel to it whether I wanted it to or not.

I've played electric drums to a click and guess what?  I sounded like a machine.

ymmv