[Minor derail]

Nice set up Paul.  And being a turquoise kind of guy myself, I love the color.  Just wondering - what tunes do you do that call for the set of temple blocks?

[/Minor derail]

Bill,
I think this is great and I support anyone that tries to better them selves.  I play by ear and have been doing it for 36 years.  I am reluctant to start learning how to read drum sheet music now.  I do read music but have never applied it to drumming.  Maybe I could learn too
but in the applications that I am involved in, I have never found a need for it.  My band stuff is done all by listening and my Church praise band is different.  My music director has handed me sheet music before but I told him all I need is the lyrics and I will make what ever notation that is needed for me to know what and where I am doing what.  He has been playing along time and keeps telling me that I play with more feeling than anyone he has ever played with.
I would hate to see that complement change.  Good luck and I hope it all makes you better.
Just to let you all know, I do respect all of you formally trained drummers and maybe because of my lack of training I am missing something that I could be doing better.  What I am doing seems to be working very well.  My band just split up after 4 years and right now, I have no shortage of good musicians to play with.  It is more about what chemistery will work best.
 
                                               Nutty

Nutty, I suggest you are reading music, and since you aren't a slave to drum notation, you're probably better at doing it professionally than a lot of guys who grew up being spoon fed the stuff through the Weckl books and what not.

Thank you Gaddabout,
I guess that you are looking at it as the glass is half full.  I really do play with feeling more than anything else and since I sing too, I key my changes on the vocals.  I do depend on a music stand most of the time.  It has nothing but lyrics and my notations but I usually am the one driving the bus so it works out very well.

Thank You Chris C,
You are right, it is not to late.  I have really been giving it some thought.  I have a great drummer friend in Louisville that I really respect and some training from him might be good.
I have been compared to him and he really knows what he is doing, I guess, I don't.  When I am doing Open mic night with all of my friends that are active musicains in town, When they tell me,"man that was killer", I kind of blow it off like, "yea, 36 years and I still don't know what I am doing". The Guitar player from the house band heard me say that and he said "Yes you do too know what you are doing".  He also plays with a few other bands in town.
I am really not sure what I want to do training wise but I love playing and will keep on playing as long as my health let's me play.
                                         Nutty

Wow Paul,
I would have to agree with both of you. In defence of Gaddabout, he just said "A lot of guy's", he didn't say all formally trained drummers.  I think that a formally trained drummer can feel it just as well as a person that claims to be self taught.  I would say that your all's formal training defenitly gives
you all the edge when it comes to playing for the, Example. Detroit Symphony.  I think that after all these years, I am missing somethings that could keep me from  getting involved in some formal
venture.  I do read music and I have had much formal music training.  Just not with Drums.  I think that the more education, in most cases, the better. I really do wish now that I had gotten involved in
some formal training at the age of 9, when I started.  I am sure that I would have progressed much faster and I would be a completely different style drummer than I am now.  I think that you guy's ROCK and I respect you.  Anything I say about my personnal experiences are not ever ment to offend anyone and I think that Gaddabout was just trying to pay me a complement.   If I was giving advice to my children about this subject, I would tell them that they should learn the right way with formal training. Not that they would listen, but because I really care about them, and from me learning the hard way, that is what I really believe. I have learned much from you formally trained guy's and gal's
on this web site.  This is why I am here.
                                                          Nutty

I enthusiastically concur.  Every tool we put in the box helps at some point.

I agree, the more skills the better.

I got a gig this weekend with a cover band I've never worked with before, they sent me a set list. We won't rehearse beforehand so I will have to read charts for the form and basic grooves. Without that skill, they'd have called someone else. On some gigs, I play by ear too, but I definitely am glad I have the option of reading when charts are available. If I have to learn a bunch of songs fast, I can chart them which is infinitely easier than memorizing them.

Come to think of it, the only drummers I've ever heard argue against reading, don't read well.

Nutty -

I think you might have misunderstood Poly a bit - when he referred to "I can chart them", I think he meant quickly write out charts himself, rather than needing to find existing charts for each of the songs.

And while you're right about there being multiple ways of skinning a cat, in that the end results are likely to be identical. And every method requires some degree of practice and/or time spent. The differences in methods lie entirely in the amount time/practice required for the same end result. With putting on a tape and purely memorizing generally taking the longest and writing out (usually short-hand) charts taking the shortest. It sounds like you make use of a modified shorthand notation system yourself - one that relies more on lyrics than I would choose, but whatever works.

Besides the amount time spent preparing, there is also another issue many of us deal with, namely having to juggle multiple projects at once. I might have to prepare Thursday night for the new show I'm playing on Saturday, because I'm also rehearsing and playing a different show on Friday and playing a wedding with yet a different band Saturday afternoon. So whatever notation/learning method I use for Saturday nights show can't require that I keep it all in my head from Thursday to Saturday night. So charts that I can actually read with little recollection required is often a necessity.

Finally - a bit about fear of notation or learning to read notation. You expressed this a bit and it is something I hear a lot (and at times thoughout this thread).

Reading notation just gives you information about the music you're already hearing or are about to hear - on drum parts, suggestions of what to play; on lead sheets/piano parts. information on what the other instruments are about to play.  There is nothing about having this added information that is going to cancel or otherwise remove any of the things you already know how to do as a player. It sounds like you listen. play for the music, groove, and generally make the music work for the other players/singers - all good musical skills.  Knowing how to read notation wouldn't teach you to able to do any of those things - at most, it will only help you to do those things easier, in a more musically informed manner, and with less preperation.

As to earlier comments on the thread - regarding comparing players who can't read that play great vs. those that can read but can't groove, play musical, etc .... apple and oranges.  These are bogus comparisons.  As I wrote above, reading won't help you play in time, groove, understand styles, play with taste, play with fire, etc. Learning to do those things are seperate issues, seperate skills. Skills that all have to be in place to be a functional drummer - with reading not at all being one of the most important ones or at all the more difficult to learn.

That said - conversely, the otherwise skillful, grooving, rocking, musical drummer that can't read is not, and will not be, as effective as they could be if they did...period.  They are wasting time in their preperation, short changing their job opportunities and otherwise wasting precious time being inefficient.  Life's too short - and it is WAY too hard to learn to play REALLY well to skip over something as simple to aquire and as useful to have as the abilty to read.

Really finally - I don't agree that the bandstand is the place to learn the bulk of what we know about playing - particularly pop/jazz music.  The bandstand is there to gain experience and polish your skills, not waste your's and other's time learning about music and the basic playing of it.

Which means IMO the practice room is for a lot more than book learning and exercises. Every drummer's practice room should have, besides a pad, a drumset, music stand and books, the largest collection of recorded music the student can get his or her hands on - and headphones appropriate for hearing both the recorded music and their playing at the same time.  For all of my support of written notation, this is still an aural enterprise.  Notation can suggest, help you remember and even help explain some things; but the details are all in the listening and hearing.

The practice room is for working on the all of music - not just the technical.  Everything musical you can do in that room, you should - so that when playing with real players in an ensemble, you can focus primarily on that; the experience of taking all that work and exploration in the practice room and apply to a real musical situation.

David

Mr. A and David,
I agree.  This was the best post on this subject that I have read on the DC.  David explains it very well.  I think that Polyostenoto may be doing the same thing as me and just talking another language that I wasn't clear about.  David however, sounds like he has been in my music room.  I never play out with out a music stand with my lyrics and notation. I have a 1650 watt 24 channel PA system with music from everyone I can think of. My home work and hard work has been the key to my bands doing well.  I always know the song stucture better than my band members because it is important for me to get it right. I do also include in my notation where the Bridge is or the Lead X 2 is or the change is.  Thank you David for this perfect responce to what has been said by me and others on this thread.  I Agree with all of it.
                                              Nutty

Hi Bill,
I think that I have gotten to the point where I am telling people that I would tell my kids to get formal training and I have none.  If I learn how to do the right thing then I can push my son to learning it the right way.   I can help him read and practice music but drum wise, all I can do is teach him what I do and how to play by feel. I am talking to Bart right now about doing some of his Video Lessons. We shall see?  Couldn't hurt me, all I can do is keep playing like I do, or get better?
                                      Nutty