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« on: July 19, 2006, 11:06 AM » |
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This is not a link to the kid on youtube that "explains" the polyrythm in his manner (simplifying the beat) it is in fact an opus to the great genius which is Danny Carey. I'm talking about the rythm that he created in the climax of Rosetta Stoned, the epic track from 10000 days. I have recorded myself playing this rythm to show some of you that might have missed what great drumming is in this song. So I'll explain in the easiest way, the complexity of this groove. The bass drum is in 3 The high-hat in 4 The snare in 5 and the toms (mandalas) in 6 The toms or mandalas are played on 3 different distinct sound played in 1 - 2 - 3 - 2 ... creating a 5th rythm. He then added a flam on the first note of the toms just to add to the complexity. This is me playing the first 4 rythms. Note that the first 3 seconds are there to show the sticking pattern of the hands. http://joblo3.homestead.com/files/Stoned1.mp3Then this is the whole rythm, with the added magistral 5th beat. http://joblo3.homestead.com/files/Synapsis_-_Stoned3.mp3While learning this, I was absolutely amazed by the depth of it, amazed, by the tromendous efforts needed to master it, and then the simplicity of manipulating it while perfected. This is for me the greatest polyrythm of the last 2 decades. Hail to you master Carey! |
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Mister Acrolite
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« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2006, 11:13 AM » |
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Can you write this out and post it? It sounds nice, but I'm having a hard time hearing the rhythm the way you described it. For example, with the snare drum only playing one note, what makes you say that it's in 5?
Nice stuff...
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« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2006, 11:33 AM » |
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the snare is in 5 because you need to play it 5 times before it loops, but I'll try to find something big enough to write this monster down...
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« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2006, 12:03 PM » |
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Here it is, the first 4 rythms, written in paint  The top bar represents the toms, the second one the High-Hat, the third on is the bass drum and finally the last one is the snare.  hmm, here's the link to the image, since the board auto-resizes the image to 550 pixels... http://joblo3.homestead.com/files/Stonedsheet.GIF |
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Gaddabout
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« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2006, 12:10 PM » |
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You did that in MS Paint? Must've been painful. You really need this: http://www.codamusic.com/It will even allow you to tie notes together to show odd groupings of 3/5/7 etc. |
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Odd meter isn't broken. It doesn't need to be fixed. - David Crigger
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Mister Acrolite
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« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2006, 12:53 PM » |
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What about that cowbell sound on the clip? Is that part of it, or is that from a metronome?
To me the thing sounds like it's in 3/4, with a cowbell on 1 and a snare on 3. Still trying to understand...
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Mister Acrolite
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« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2006, 12:54 PM » |
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Can you post a clip of Carey playing it, too?
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AutoCrat
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« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2006, 01:10 PM » |
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LOL! it's far from being a cowbell it a 6x6 bongo with a high pitch  But I reckon it sound aweful, it's the fault of my huge drum vs small old PC mic... Those toms sound in 3/4 but I count them in 6/2 (which is the same thing). Anyway, here's danny playing it live, but I think that he adds a little more hits here and there with his left hand on the mandalas... http://joblo3.homestead.com/files/Danny_Stoned.mp3 |
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Mister Acrolite
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« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2006, 01:43 PM » |
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Nice! I hear that as a slow 3/4, with a 5-note pattern being superimposed over a 16th-note groove. It would repeat itself every 5 bars.
You'd probably enjoy some of Gary Chaffee's "Patterns" books - they explore a lot of this kind of stuff.
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felix
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« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2006, 05:04 PM » |
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Nice! I hear that as a slow 3/4, with a 5-note pattern being superimposed over a 16th-note groove. It would repeat itself every 5 bars.
You'd probably enjoy some of Gary Chaffee's "Patterns" books - they explore a lot of this kind of stuff.
yeah, what he said.  |
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Yaay!
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David Crigger
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« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2006, 02:33 AM » |
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Nice! I hear that as a slow 3/4, with a 5-note pattern being superimposed over a 16th-note groove. It would repeat itself every 5 bars.
Yep - 3/4 with 5/16 in the BD running against across the bar lines. The toms, hat and snare are all in 3 - counting in 16ths - the toms play 1 e * a 2 * & a * e & * the hat plays basic 1/4's - 1 * * * 2 * * * 3 * * * and the snare on beat 3 only (which fits with a rest in the tom part) the BD in 5/16 plays on beats 1 & 3 - again in 16ths 1 * 3 * * very hard to both make feel good and to always know where you are at... David |
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« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2006, 05:52 AM » |
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This notation explains the independant beats, but doesn't explain the interaction between all of them. I prefer talking about a 4 way polyrythm between the 4 members of the body playing them. It's much simpler to count afterwards (for me) and easier tu understand for non-drummers And yes, like every complex polyrythm, it's hard to know where your at without strong concentration or muscle memory, and challenging to make "feel good" since a 1 note mis-placement will ruin the whole mesure. |
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David Crigger
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« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2006, 12:09 PM » |
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Hammertown Drummer
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« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2006, 12:54 PM » |
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Well thought out explanation David.
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I never stop learning new things.....but it keeps getting easier!!!!!!!!!!
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« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2006, 12:20 PM » |
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I really like your explenation David, but excuse my english, but when I talk about a 4 way rhythm, I talk about the fact that your 4 limbs are playing 4 diffrent things (grooves, beat, etc.) at the same time. This is what amazed me from this rhythm. I never really studied notations, and pretty much always made my own. I interpret polyrythms based on each of my limbs having to play each rhythm, in order for me to play it.... obviously So for me, when each limbs play on different meters, (even if you can combine some to simplify the whole) I note the groove on every meters. I have done this for a long time and yeah... it does confuses people, but it got me playing things that I could not without having to study music for 4 years in College  |
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