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Blum
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« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2004, 02:10 AM » |
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I feel that rudiments are important to a drummer's vocabulary. I have this opinion probalby because I come a from highly rudimental drumming (drum corps and what not) but in listening to a great many percussionist and drummers, I've noticed that rudiments helps those musicians express themselves more freely.
First, I do feel that there is a differance between playing four notes RLRL, or RLRR, or RRRL, or so on. Even if you can't tell there is an audible difference, there is a feel that can't be recreated if you choose a particular sticking style. Beyond, being able to play those 4 notes in several different ways allows you to maybe accents different parts of the group differently. Also, playing those simple 4 notes in different ways allows them to be voiced differently on a drumset and allows for more simple transitions between fills and grooves.
Second, most of the post I have been reading deal with rudiments on a single drum, but what about orchestrating rudiments, especially higly complex ones, (a.k.a. hybrid rudiments) around a kit? What cool grooves, fills, etc. can come from doing something as simple as playing swiss-triplets between you ride and snare. And beyond that, maybe your snare and kick drum?
I just wanted to give rudiements a good rep and to say that knowing your rudiments should be an essential for any drummer. I mean, why would you want to limit your self by saying you can play something one way, and you odn't have to play any other? If you want to be trully good at any instrument, know every way to do something, the good and the bad. Its ismply allows you to have more item in your "bag of goodies" to use during your next big ass solo. That or you can simple play singles between you hands and feet, crowds tend to like that...
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Jelly
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« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2004, 07:33 PM » |
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Every drummer needs to learn rudiments to help build their dexterity and control. Then you can create your own sticking patterns and start having fun. Think outside the box. My 2cents.
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ChinaCymbal
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« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2004, 03:05 PM » |
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I don't think sticking is important while playing established material, however i've made up some pretty groovy stuff with different sticking patterns, that i NOW apply with single strokes, that i would have never thought of without rudiments (i utilized a double paradiddle-diddle for instance just last week to create one).
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jesster
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mmmm, yummy
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« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2004, 01:00 PM » |
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I remember the importance of sticking in drum corps from my days in marching percussion (mostly for consistency across all drummers and also visual effect). I'm curious though.....is it possible that some of the rudimentary patterns came from the days when pretty much all field drumming used a side slung drum.....so the sticking patterns were important due to the swing of the drum as one walked/marched?? I've never played a snare or tenor in this style but.....just a possibly crazy idear...
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Andrew
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« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2004, 02:58 PM » |
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...what about orchestrating rudiments, especially higly complex ones, (a.k.a. hybrid rudiments) around a kit? What cool grooves, fills, etc. can come from doing something as simple as playing swiss-triplets between you ride and snare. And beyond that, maybe your snare and kick drum? This is what I was going to say (and it's a good enough point that it shouldn't have been the third paragraph of your post!). I'm definitely one of the right-hand-lead guys, but it's nice to be able to use a double stroke to make, like, a U-turn in the middle of a fill.
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Adam's Dad
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'71 Ludwig Micro-Bop
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« Reply #25 on: May 20, 2004, 08:39 AM » |
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rudimentary patterns came from the days when pretty much all field drumming used a side slung drum..... Additionally, the rudiments were "developed" at a time when traditional grip was the only grip used and taught to students. Combine that with the angled snare drum and sticking becomes an important issue. The sound of sticking patterns is DEFINATELY different with traditional grip. BTW, my college perc teacher instructed me to use "concert sticking" for orchestral work. Basically it involves starting each measure with the right hand and starting every beat with the right hand. BTW 2, I agree with several DC'ers that having several ways to play a pattern will only improve your overall feel. It's not about playing a pattern the "correct" way, but playing it in a manner that sounds better, hipper, smoother, etc. Other instruments have all kinds of alternate fingerings (sax, violin, bass, and the ever popular accordion) that are used effectively in their performance. P.S. Hey, oxford, this is my $20 worth, so make my check payable to "Adam's Dad"
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"Put your foot on the rock and pat your foot, don't stop, put your foot on the rock" - Bill Withers from Kissing My Love"
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incdrummer
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« Reply #26 on: May 25, 2004, 02:58 PM » |
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in my opinion..no ive played without following patterns and ive never had any problems.
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rox
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« Reply #27 on: May 25, 2004, 04:27 PM » |
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audible quality or not? I only use them in a song if I feel like it needs to be in it. If I don't think it'll fit, I simply won't.
But rudiments are perfect for me so I can achieve more control when playing single stroke which I usually do.
I like my sound to be equal and not accented with paradiddles. It simple doesn't fit in the style of playing I'm in.
So I'd say: Use them when you feel like it
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bilkay
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Where's that @$%# drum key?
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« Reply #28 on: July 27, 2006, 09:04 PM » |
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It's using different rudiments on different sound sources with each hand that makes it really interesting. Try paradiddles using your right hand on a tom and left hand on the snare.
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Chris -
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« Reply #29 on: July 27, 2006, 09:27 PM » |
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One book that I've used along with my students is Rick Considine's -Rudiment Grooves for the Drum Set. I think it is a very good book to start off with and opens venues of other chops. An example is to then incorporate the 128 Hybrids into the kit: http://www.drumlines.org/threads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/192685/page/0/fpart/1/vc/1Neat stuff!!!
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What should I choose - Moller/Free Stroke; Heel up/down: Zildjian/Sabian; DW/Ludwig; Peart/Gadd? Oh @*$^#&, I should have played guitar!
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rockdave
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« Reply #30 on: July 27, 2006, 09:47 PM » |
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This is sort of just a "brain dump" for me... just getting all my thoughts on this subject out: 1.) Different stickings will ALWAYS sound different because of the natural inevitable differences in motion between hands. YOU may not be able to tell... but somebody can. 2.) Contrary to what many think, I think that the rudiments are important even MORE on the drumset than on just a snare. Why? There's a much broader range of sounds that can be made with a drumset than a snare. Also, different sticking patterns make moving around the set more ergonomic. Compare playing eighth note triplets RLL RLL RLL RLL and playing them RLR LRL RLR LRL, accenting (around the set) on the downbeats. With the latter sticking, you're accenting with different hands and using a LOT more general motion, while achieving a similar sound. 3.) Mastering the rudiments can increase your speed. Not your "blast-beat single-stroke" speed... but your overall speed. For example, I can play certain paradiddle patterns (especially accented ones) faster than single-stroked patterns. As another example, let's take a look at some swiss-army triplets... play them on your snare drum, but accent the downbeat on your floor tom. You end up playing constant triplets on your snare while still accenting the downbeat on the tom. 4.) Learning to play with different stickings can help build hand-to-hand independence. A lot of you might look at me funny for that remark, but think about it. Play almost any flam or diddle rudiment between, let's say, a ride cymbal and a snare drum... you'll see what I mean. Anyway... I hope I haven't annoyed anyone with my long brain-barf/rant... Maybe I helped. Who knows? It's late... I'm going to sleep 
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Hammertown Drummer
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« Reply #31 on: July 27, 2006, 10:10 PM » |
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I tend to agree with you Dave. Different stickings do sound different, double are more fluid than singles, but, like you and others have mentioned: The biggest reason for these sticking is ergonomics around the kit....getting yourself out of the way of yourself. And Dave I know exactly what you mean about hand to hand independance. Not many people think about this, but it is so true. The perfect example is the single stroke roll, most people can play pretty fast with one hand, but when put together their single stroke roll is not twice as fast....usually a coordination problem.
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I never stop learning new things.....but it keeps getting easier!!!!!!!!!!
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J. Skins
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« Reply #32 on: July 28, 2006, 08:44 AM » |
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But ultimately for me, the rudiments are:
Single stroke Double stroke Ruff Flam
To me everything is a combination of these. All classical rudiment are still worthy of practise however in order to get use to mixing these simpler ingredients, but still, I feel the classics can be trapping if you stick to them or any other parroted pattern. Hydrogen and Oxygen are elements from a table of elements that represent the building blocks of everything that exists in the physical world. But, when you take a dive off a diving board, you need to be sure that the right combination of Hydrogen and Oxygen is available for you to land in. Practicing rudiments in every conceivable combination is like filling the pool. I'm not saying you won't still bump your head on the bottom every once in a while, but it'll hurt a lot less. 
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"...and the forests will echo with laughter." - Alright, time to wake up.
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