Chris Whitten
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« Reply #40 on: October 26, 2006, 06:01 PM » |
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I intended this thread to be a place to talk about the grooves that *feel* good, and don't really relate to revolving drum sets hung 100 feet above the stage or some clinician ripping off 32nd note paradiddles on the bass drums. Exactly. I thought someone might mention Stan Lynch and Steve Ferrone for their work with Tom Petty. Not my kind of music, but I'm dazzled by the forceful simplicity of their drum work with him. Exactly.More often than not, the best straight grooves require deft skill, limber hands, and dancing feet to pull off.
Exactly. |
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Gaddabout
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« Reply #41 on: October 26, 2006, 06:02 PM » |
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I'm surprised no one mentioned "Don't You" by Simple Minds, which I suppose was the Scottish version of U2 in the 80s. To this day I still don't know who their drummer is, and I know they went through a few. Too bad, because whichever studio cat put that tasty playing together rates high in my book.
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Chris Whitten
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« Reply #42 on: October 26, 2006, 06:04 PM » |
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coz i think of 'straight' swing and 'broken' swing; straight being the 'simpler' classic swing pattern.
not that it really matters, though, coz i suspect we're mainly talking pop stuff.
Hmm, puzzled by the implied comment that 'pop' can't swing, whether that be 'straight' or 'broken', although I don't understand those two terms either. |
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Chris Whitten
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« Reply #43 on: October 26, 2006, 06:07 PM » |
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I'm surprised no one mentioned "Don't You" by Simple Minds I guess we haven't got around to mentioning every great, straight groove yet. I'm 99% sure the drummer was Mel Gaynor. At the time he was kinda considered in the UK to be the next Simon Phillips. Certainly, he was ( is) a very fine drummer. |
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smoggrocks
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Is there another word for synonym?
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« Reply #44 on: October 26, 2006, 06:15 PM » |
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yah, pop can swingg. i guess i was splitting hairs, genre-wise. i don't know. i'm giddy from lack of sleep.  |
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Gaddabout
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« Reply #45 on: October 26, 2006, 06:15 PM » |
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I guess we haven't got around to mentioning every great, straight groove yet. I'm just getting warmed up. No one's mentioned Phil Gould and everything he ever played with Level 42. With Mark King, there aren't many rhythm sections that rate hire in my unrecorded list. I love Gary Husband, but I wasn't crazy about the direction of the music when Phil left. Having Gary Husband and Allan Holdsworth in your rock band is sort of like taking a Lamborghani and a Ferrari for a slow country drive. |
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Odd meter isn't broken. It doesn't need to be fixed. - David Crigger
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jameswalker
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« Reply #46 on: October 26, 2006, 06:17 PM » |
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I mistakenly thought the thread was referring to outstanding grooves of whatever style -- as opposed to chops, soloing, rudimentary prowess, speed, etc. That's what I thought, too, and for my money, "What Is Hip" definitely deserves to be on this list, at least the way I'm interpreting the criteria - the groove and feel of that track are undeniable. IMO, being "tasteful" doesn't automatically mean playing very few notes - it means playing what the song requires, which often does equate to "relatively few notes," but not always. Besides, how much more tasteful can you get than this: the most "signature" fill in the song (referring to "What Is Hip") is comprised of one - count 'em ONE - bass drum note!  Now, that having been said, I've got a few more to suggest: Herbie Lovelle, on B.B. King's "The Thrill Is Gone" Roger Hawkins, on Aretha Franklin's "Chain Of Fools" And my apologies if it's there and I've missed it, but have we had any James Brown on the list yet? If not, or even if we have: Clyde Stubblefield, on James Brown's "Cold Sweat" |
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Chris Whitten
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« Reply #47 on: October 26, 2006, 06:35 PM » |
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for my money, "What Is Hip" definitely deserves to be on this list, at least the way I'm interpreting the criteria - the groove and feel of that track are undeniable. Well it's just that the inspiration for this thread I believe was my oft heard complaint that we talk about chop-heavy, virtuoso drum performances too much. I'm not Gaddabout, but many of the drum grooves mentioned early in this thread were grooves most Cafe members could successfully play themselves. That's a good thing in my book. I wouldn't know where to start to deconstruct a Garibaldi groove. IMO, being "tasteful" doesn't automatically mean playing very few notes - it means playing what the song requires, which often does equate to "relatively few notes," but not always. You're right, but we talk a lot about the Portnoy's, Chambers and Beauford's. Here's a chance to talk about some examples of the drummer digging into a simpler pattern, with bags of groove and conviction. |
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Gaddabout
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« Reply #48 on: October 26, 2006, 06:56 PM » |
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The thing about Garibaldi is he really rides that line between technician and groove man. He has to because of the band he's in. The bass lines are really complicated, but you have to stay out of the way of the big horn section while kicking them in the backside with the time. To me, Garibaldi isn't a great technician to begin with. I've heard him swing. It sounds really stiff to me. But I do think he is a groove man with a technician's mindset, and he's technically proficient enough to do what he wants to do. I also think there's a mystique about Garibaldi where people attribute things to him that he did not play. By that, I mean people listen to, say, "Bump City," and attribute more to the drum part than there really is. Bump City is a great swamp groove, BTW. What Is Hip is one of those songs where you have a really hard time determining where it sits on our flimsy dichotomy. How you interpret that kind of playing is going to reveal a lot about what you prefer, IMO. It's really a song featuring the horns, and the drums and bass are sort of interlocked in this monstrous flow of sixteenth notes. There's some syncopation, but it's not choppy, and it's not downbeat challenged (there's no displacement going on). Depending on how you interpret the grace notes, I think it could be a very straight groove. It certainly holds nothing on Garibaldi's arm and brain twisters like the outro to Man from the Past, which I currently remain totally baffled how he (a) arrived at something like that and (b) made it groove so well. When I play it, it's akin to Clay Aiken singing Marvin Gaye or some other really bad idea. Ironically, his playing on Man from the Past leading up to the outro is remarkably restrained and very good soulful playing. So I let you all decide.  |
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Chris Whitten
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« Reply #49 on: October 26, 2006, 07:10 PM » |
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No doubt Garibaldi grooves in my opinion.
Most of the Tower Of Power signature grooves can be attributed to the entire rhythm section however.
They move as a well oiled machine. Take each player as an individual and the power of the groove is much diminished.
The Tower Of Power groove is made up from choppy organ, bass guitar, congas and the drums.
Back to the original topic.....
A drummer who constantly turns around the one, utilises a lot of beat displacement and syncopation, does not add up to a 'straight' groove player in my book.
Just a personal opinion.
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DrumDude
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« Reply #50 on: October 26, 2006, 07:25 PM » |
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The drummer for The Donna's i think drives a good beat (kinda repetitive after awhile to me)
The Smithereens "behind a wall of sleep" really gets to me too
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byronand
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« Reply #51 on: October 29, 2006, 09:40 AM » |
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Gotta include Nashville cats... "...clean as country water" (extra credit for those who "get" that reference.) E.g., Amy Grant's "House of Love" -- Chad Cromwell, drums. Besides a great, simple groove, one small stand-out he does several times on the track, is to play shimmering quarter-note accents, in unison with the vocal, on three crash cymbals that sound pitched in an ascending melodic triad. Really nice effect. |
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DWdrmr
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« Reply #52 on: October 29, 2006, 11:23 AM » |
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On Tom Petty's 'You Don't Know How it Feels', Steve Ferrone lays down the perfect groove. It's so nice, I almost don't notice that there's not a fill in the tune.
I have to agree. |
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virtualinvasion
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« Reply #53 on: November 07, 2006, 04:23 PM » |
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Chad Smith and John Blackwell are both the groove masters. Was it modern drummer festival where Chad smith just played the same beat for like 5 minutes straight to prove a point? That was a bit silly, but still better than these guys who play as fast as they can and make sell the most DVD's!
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felix
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first class all the way :-)
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« Reply #54 on: November 16, 2006, 10:11 AM » |
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What is really killer is I am downloading all these great tunes into my music player for only 12 bucks a month!
Finally broke down and bought an Mp3 player.
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Sonor, The Drummers Drum
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felix
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first class all the way :-)
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« Reply #55 on: November 17, 2006, 02:57 PM » |
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Boy, it's great hearing some of these old tunes again and lots for the first time. Ok, to play big fat groove can one play slightly ahead of the one and three and drag the back beat? Really kick butt groove Chrisso on the Bohemian's track Gaddabout mentioned. I gotta admit... I'm impressed!   LOL By the way- guys, you gotta get Fred Dinkin's book "It's about time"... it is so much fun and it just has to work on your groove- check it out at the drum shop next time you are there. It is a blast the exercises he has you do. Best book I've gotten in years IMHO. |
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Sonor, The Drummers Drum
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tkitna
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« Reply #56 on: November 17, 2006, 06:29 PM » |
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I just caught Tom Petty on VH1 classic BBC jewels and I forgot how great Stan Lynch was. Killer grooves on everything, but they did 'Breakdown' and it really grabbed me. Fantastic. Well, i'd like to add more, but i'm off to see Kansas right now and Phil Ehart is my favorite drummer so,,,.
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felix
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first class all the way :-)
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« Reply #57 on: November 19, 2006, 09:27 AM » |
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Black Cow- Steely Dan. Did Keltner, Bernard Purdie, Gadd or Rick Marotta play drums on this? Awesome as well. Ok, I found it... Paul Humphrey. |
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Sonor, The Drummers Drum
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Gaddabout
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« Reply #58 on: November 20, 2006, 12:55 AM » |
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I've pulled No Doubt's Rock Steady out of the bin again, and Adrian Young is just really, really good on this one. His stuff on the single Hella Good is enjoyable. So I went back to Tragic Kingdom and Return of Saturn and realized how much he's grown up. He used to be a little Stewart Copeland wanna-be, although I confess he did a decent impression. Now he seems to have settled into his own identity, and I think if I were a producer I wouldn't hesitate to call him on a rock or pop gig.
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Odd meter isn't broken. It doesn't need to be fixed. - David Crigger
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felix
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first class all the way :-)
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« Reply #59 on: November 20, 2006, 06:55 AM » |
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I have that cd. I'll have to check it out again- he is really good and even manages a few fresh sounding fills for a pop player. No mention of Charlie Watts? I guess we have talked about him enough here, but I heard a killer Stone's song on TV yesterday that I thought had a killer groove. I'll let you know when I find it. Has no one checked out the Fred Dinkin's book yet? It is so much fun. I must have grooved on that thing for three hours this weekend. There is a section called "playing silence" where you play thru one beat and increase up to 16 bars of silence- all at different tempos utilizing 4 different grooves. It's a trip. The 8 and 16 bars of playing PERFECT time at 75 BPM is no joke. Try it |
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Sonor, The Drummers Drum
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