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wind
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« on: October 26, 2006, 01:23 AM » |
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Hi everybody,
I have to build some reggae vocabulary and have non idea where to start from. Anybody could pls tell me where to get some material?
Thanks
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Chris Whitten
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« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2006, 04:45 AM » |
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Buy, download or borrow any Bob Marley album. Try and find albums that feature the Sly and Robbie rhythm section (drummer Sly Dunbar). Listen to those records and practice playing along with them.
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Gaddabout
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« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2006, 04:08 PM » |
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Have you ever tried Red Stripe?
Yay, beer!
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Chris
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« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2006, 08:52 AM » |
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Much of what Copeland plays on Police records is heavily reggae-inspired - you could try listening to some of that stuff for an application of reggae in another genre.
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I hit things.
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chillman4130
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« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2006, 09:41 AM » |
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Gotta learn that one-drop, mon.
Chris' one-drop lesson for the layman:
On the hi-hat, play either a shuffle beat (triplets, but rest on every second beat of each triplet), and then play a cross-stick on the snare and a kick drum beat on the 3 of every measure.
Some reggae has less of a shuffle and more of a straight 16th beat to it, but the one-drop (the cross-stick and kick at the same time) usually remains integral.
In reggae, the downbeat is minimalized, as you usually do not play a kick drum beat on it (hard to get used to) and the upstrokes are usually emphasized. Like:
one TWO three FOUR
The most important thing in reggae (IMO) is feel. It might drive you crazy whether the right hand pattern is swung or not. Sometimes there's a swing, sometimes it's a straight beat, but most of the time it's somewhere in the vast, vast middle. I think that might have something to do with a certain traditional substance associated with reggae...
A couple other things I've learned in my (limited) experience with reggae: Oddly enough, no ride cymbal is used ALWAYS start the song with a timbale fill (buy bob marley's legend album and listen to the first :04 of every song) A popular fill is to hit the snare and a crash at the same time on the last 16th note before the 4 beat.
Anyway I hope this helps and doesnt confuse you worse. I second all the music recommendations so far. Also, the Red Stripe, although it's unbelievably overpriced at every bar where I live (which is ironically the closes state to Jamaica in the US) is a good idea. I don't officially condone another aforementioned reggae-related substance, so I will only say it appears to have been conducive to the playing of (not necessarily learning of) reggae in past ocurrences.
Good luck in your reggae journey. It's probably one of the most fun beats I play.
May ery'ting be irie, mon!
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Bart Elliott
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« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2006, 09:56 AM » |
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Personally, rather than approaching to play a particular beat or rhythm ... do some listening! Start buying some classic Reggae albums, listen to what's going on and start learning to play the grooves. Then begin to analyze what is what and why. What I've noticed is people who have one or two rhythms that they can play from a particular genre, and they haven't spent the time LISTENING to the style/genre, they sound like they got the beat from a textbook ... which they did! Nothing wrong with grabbing rhythms from a method book or the Internet, but you need to realize that there's more to the music than just particular sounds hitting on particular beats. Country music uses many of the same rhythms that Rock music does ... but the feel is very different. If you don't listen to the styles then you're not going to know how to apply the rhythms that you've learned. I've had students come in to play for me, and when I ask them to play something in the Latin genre, they typically know one beat ... Bossa Nova. After they "play" it for me I ask them to name an artist or band who is known for playing Bossa Novas. They can't give me one name. I then ask them if they've listened to any music that uses Bossa Novas and they same "no". So where did they learn Bossa Nova? From a book ... and it sounds like it too! Nothing wrong from learning out of a book ... I certainly have done this ... but it doesn't stop there. Written rhythms, books and notation is just one small step to learning a style genre. You have to learn how to interpret the rhythms and apply them, and the only way to do that is to listen to the music. So, my suggestion is to do some searching on Amazon, we have a search function right here on the Drummer Cafe, and pick-up some classic Reggae albums.  I don't mean to sound like I'm scolding you or anyone else. My intention is to actually encourage you to really learn the music.
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chillman4130
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« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2006, 10:40 AM » |
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I agree with you Bart, and I am lucky in that I consider myself among those who can listen to music and then visualize what the musicians are doing (most of the time anyway) and translate it to the kit (some of the time anyway  ). But, that doesn't work as well for some people, especially when they are first exposed to a new style. I remember it took me a while to realize that the kick was being played on the 3 because that was so foreign to me and I thought the engineer may have just gotten a really deep sound out of the cross-stick. Naive, huh? Especially with reggae, where there is so much non-drumset percussion along with the kit, it can be hard for a beginner (yea, even a novice) to discern what is coming from the drumkit and what is coming from the percussionist. Listening is definitely the most "authentic" way to learn, but for some people it can be problematic. Take rural Mexican Norteño music for example. They sing in constant perfect parallel harmony but do you think they have all studied advanced harmonic theory? Doubtful. They are just exposed to it throughout their life and it comes naturally. But if I wanted to do that (I do, actually) and someone told me to just listen to it, I would have a hard time getting started, and I have studied advanced harmonic theory (all I could take, anyway). I have thankfully been constantly exposed to reggae. Listening to Legend is my first musical memory from when I was 5. Whenever a song ends on that album, I can sing the timbale intro of the next song before it starts. But since I knew that album far before I knew anything about drumming, I couldn't listen to it and repeat what I heard until I learned a basic reggae beat from a more formally-educated drummer friend. So there is much to be said for learning from listening, and far, far, far be it from me to knock what Bart is saying, because I agree with him, but it cannot hurt to have a rudimentary "on-paper" knowledge of a style before you take on the mighty task of immersing yourself in listening.
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Bart Elliott
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« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2006, 12:05 PM » |
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So there is much to be said for learning from listening, and far, far, far be it from me to knock what Bart is saying, because I agree with him, but it cannot hurt to have a rudimentary "on-paper" knowledge of a style before you take on the mighty task of immersing yourself in listening.
Please know that I wasn't knocking what you said either. I merely wanted to encourage all of us to move beyond picking a few rhythms that are notated for us. Like I said, I've learned a lot that way, and I wish the materials that are now available were around when I was a kid. Sometimes people just want a quick fix. They don't want to pay their dues and take the time to really learn. Instead, they just want to get by. I'm addressing anyone who may struggle with that line of thinking. Certainly not everyone may need, or even want, to fully learn a given style or music genre. But wind stated that he/she needed to build their Reggae vocabulary. To me, in order to really build a vocabulary you've got to emerse yourself into the style. If I want to build my Spanish vocabulary, sure, I could grab a few words here and there ... but to really build and be able to use the vocabulary properly, I've got to understand the Spanish language ... and that happens by reading, writing and listening to the language. Failing to this makes me sound like a gringo trying to speak Spanish. (cue the Urban Sombrero)
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My doctor says it's bad for my blood pressure if my mind is blown for more than five minutes at a time.
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chillman4130
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« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2006, 02:59 PM » |
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Oh yeah, I did mean to write that it was perfectly clear that you weren't knocking me. I was just elaborating a little.
Speaking of reggae, my band played a block party last weekend, and since we're an all-original band we can't play three-hour sets like most bands at those kinds of events usually play. So, running out of ideas, we played a completely unrehearsed reggae version of Chris Isaak's "Wicked Game." It translated well into reggae, and I got a couple compliments about it!
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wind
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« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2006, 12:30 AM » |
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-Not enough words to THANK all of you guys on this thread, for trying to help me out.!!!!!!
I am listening to Bob Marley and the Wailers (live version) this days, and there are a couple of things I am still not sure:
-Rolls and fills: where are they placing those beautiful rolls? Are they typically played on the downbeat? I.e. starting on beat one and ending on beat one? It is a bit confusing, they sound in a weird position and I hardly hear a crash cymbal at the end of the rolls.
-Metronome click: on the upbeats or on the downbeats?
-Counting system: better get used on counting with the bassdrum on 2 and 4. (1 and Bum and 3 and Bum and….)
Or in 4/8 with the bassdrum on 3 (one-drop)? (1 2 Bum 4…..)
Thanks
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Drumodad
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« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2006, 09:10 PM » |
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May I suggest Black Uruhu, some of Robbie and Sly`s best work.
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TeReKeTe
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« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2006, 11:01 AM » |
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run, do not walk, to purchase the congo's "in the heart of the congo's".
i forget who the drummer is but i think it's carlton barrett.
also find some old studio one stuff from the late 60's-- the "rock steady" era.
reggae fills generally fall into 2 camps, the short, 5-stroke roll-ish build up to a crash on the 1, or a longer, triplet-based tom fill.
when tracking reggae it's sometimes fun to have the metronome on the upbeat, yes, but it matters more on the bassline.
tape echo!
the 1-drop is super-important, as is having a solid, defined kick drum sound and a rimclick sound that's a call to armageddon. tune your snare up hi, play your fills near the edge and get a nice 'pong' from the shank of the stick on both the head and the rim.
also-- simple is usually the right answer when it comes to reggae drum patterns. for reggae to work, the sound needs SPACE. not playing anything on the 1 or 3 and filling in space w/ consistent hihat patterns is a good idea.
and take a step even further backwards and listen to some 60's ska-- desmond dekker, the skatellites, etc. it's all about the guitar and hihat on the skank and the one drop-- if that's there w/ a good bassline, then youv'e got the soul of jamaican music.
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ayotteTL
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« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2007, 09:16 AM » |
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Of all genres of music,I found playing reggae reasonably well was by far the most difficult to learn. It so foreign to what I learned until that point. When I first heard Stewart Copeland,Sly Dunbar and Bunny Wailer(was that his name?) playing it it used to absolutely boggle my mind- a confidence killer. I remember feeling really inadequate because I felt like I had two left feet and two left hands.
In addition to listening to CDs, I would recommend a DVD of a reggae group you like. Not that listening is not helpful but seeing and hearing is a double learning whammy. I found in listening to Bob Marley CDs it was at times difficult to hear what was happening w/bass drum patterns when bass guitar lines was prominent. There's at least a couple Marley DVDs out there -sound quality sucks but I found them really helpful.
DVDs have helped me learn new things at warp speed. I believe if you have some strong fundamentals you can take yourself up to a pro level(a good one too) within less than two years just by watching DVDs and practicing what you see and hear(ideally w/some live performing to cement your learnings).
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