chilledbongo
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« on: October 29, 2006, 08:02 AM » |
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last night, i had a revelation: i was watching a very good latin band playing outdoors at a mall in doral, fl., and suddenly i realized i must have been playing my congas backasswards all this time. this guy had his quinto on his left and his tumba (it might have been a conga) on his right, on a stand. he played his slaps with his right hand and his muffles with his left on his quinto, accenting with his right hand on his conga/tumba. this is almost exactly opposite of how i do it. i put my quinto on my right and my conga on my left, but i play slaps with my left hand and muffle with my right, while accenting on conga with my left. which is right? i tried it his way when i came home and i cdnt really do it, but maybe with practice? should conga players try to be ambidextrous? i know it would help but it doesnt feel natural, to me at least.....
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Bart Elliott
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« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2006, 08:34 AM » |
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Traditionally speaking you are backwards ... IF ... you are a right-handed player. But the truth is that it doesn't matter; do what works for you.
Luis Conte sets up his Congas like you, but he's left-handed.
Sheila E. is right-handed, and she sets up her Congas like you. Her reasoning is that she was mirroring what she saw her father and brothers doing. So traditionally her set-up is backwards, but it's more important to set-up the instrument the way that it works for you!
What happens when you have more than two Tumbadoras (aka Congas)? What if you have four? What's the "right way" to set them up? The truth is that everyone sets up the instrument in the way that best fits their body.
When playing traditional tumbaos, and when you are right-handed, it does work well to have the Quinto on the left, Tumba on the right. But that doesn't mean that you can't play the way you are.
Personally, I practice so that I can play either way. This is especially beneficial when playing on someone else's set-up ... like sitting in. It's also beneficial because sometimes I set-up a particular way because it works best for a particular tune, especially when I'm playing more than just Congas. I can split the parts up so I'm playing Congas with one hand while playing Cowbell, Shaker, Tambourine, etc., with the other hand; right or left. Another benefit is when you play with a drummer, and the venue or stage has you placed on the side opposite where you normally are, in relation to the drummer. Being able to flip the Tumbadora arrangement has helped on many ocassions.
When I play with three Tumbadoras, sometimes the Tumba is on my right and sometimes on my left. The same goes for the Conga. Sometimes the Tumba and Conga are on the same side, making sort of a triagle in relation to the Quinto.
So ... it's all good ... just find what works best for you, and be as versatile as you can with your set-ups!
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My doctor says it's bad for my blood pressure if my mind is blown for more than five minutes at a time.
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chilledbongo
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« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2006, 08:51 PM » |
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ok cool....thats what i figured, but still.....my only concern is that i may be sacrificing speed and/or potential soloing combos by mixing up my hands on the 'wrong' side....i am trying reversing the whole slap thing and it feels very weird, like batting left handed in baseball....not to mention very s l o w....when i go back to my way, of course, its back to business as usual....im going to keep trying the proper technique in hopes that it will come... 
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byronand
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« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2006, 09:09 PM » |
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...Personally, I practice so that I can play either way... be as versatile as you can with your set-ups!
Hi Bart, This is a question that I've had on my mind for some time now: How does one balance versatility with excellence? Certainly there is a synergy to all practice, wherein anything we might improve in one area will generally bleed-over into improvements in other areas, e.g., developing coordination by working on a given exercise on drumset will generally improve coordination globally and could be applied to other instruments, and vice-versa. But doesn't taking the time to become proficient playing both left and right set-up positions take away from time perfecting new patterns, or working on speed or touch, or playing drumset, or working on any of the myriad of other techniques, skills, musical styles that one might aspire to master?
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MVanDoren1
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« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2006, 04:47 AM » |
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Bongo- I really like what Bart said. I learned how to play congas with NO instruction whatsoever. I do seem to recall someone mentioning that tympani are arranged "backward" in relation to drumset toms (for a right handed person) becuase they are being setup more as a melodic instrument so pitch increases as you go left to right. Somehow I translated that all the way back to highschool jazz band in that for two congas (thats the most I ever saw anyone play with at the time) you'd set them up tympani style rather than drumset style (I REALLY had a significant deficiancy in understanding percussion). So I have (right handed) quinto on the right and conga on the left. I muffle with the left and play slaps with the right. This may just be how I learned but it feels most natural to me and well...so that show I play them. If I had a tumba I'd probably try it to the right of the quinto- don't have a clue what I'd do with a super tumba but I've seen pictures of the 4 set up in a diamond fashion with the super behind the quinto and the other two med. pitched drums one on eith side. That would be pretty cool to try I think but I'd be thinking so hard about what to do that it would be a REALLY long time before I was comfortable playing with a forth.
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Bart Elliott
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« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2006, 05:45 AM » |
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But doesn't taking the time to become proficient playing both left and right set-up positions take away from time perfecting new patterns, or working on speed or touch, or playing drumset, or working on any of the myriad of other techniques, skills, musical styles that one might aspire to master?
I see your point. For me, I've found that the time I've spent trying to become more proficient with either set-up has made me a better player. It takes me less time to learn and develop new skills, styles, techniques, etc., because I have worked on being able to lead with either hand. Don't get me wrong, I have a long way to go; I would never say I'm equally proficient with both left and right set-ups. I feel really free when I can play either way ... like both sides of the brain are working together symbiotically. Having done a lot of pit-work and shows where my set-up had to change from the norm, or I had to cover a lot of parts all by myself, I learned that being able to play with reversed set-ups freed me up a lot. I'm sure it's not for everyone, and some of us learn/adapt more quickly than others, but I think its worth looking into. For me, once I crossed the initial awkwardness, things became easier and more quickly ... it wasn't always this huge battle every time I reversed a set-up. Try it; experiment. You might like the results.
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My doctor says it's bad for my blood pressure if my mind is blown for more than five minutes at a time.
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byronand
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« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2006, 01:29 PM » |
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I see your point. For me, I've found that the time I've spent trying to become more proficient with either set-up has made me a better player....
A parallel to this idea in my own playing as, primarily, a drumset player is that I regularly practice playing open-handed. I don't devote a great deal of time on it, but it definitely opens-up my all-around playing by improving my weaker left hand, as well as opening-up sticking options. But I've gotta add it can be frustrating for me to be stumbling through practicing something open-handed that I can already play in my sleep in standard sticking. It's sort-of like "eating spinach": It may be good for me, but that doesn't mean I have to like it! Lol! 
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windhorse
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« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2006, 09:34 PM » |
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Wow, great dialogue about changing handing and its affect on mastery! I think that anything you can do to jog your normal patterns will enhance what you already have in you as mastery, or the potential to master. Singing with it, playing with a foot pedal, various numbers of drums, different handing. All good...
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Hollow a log into a drum. It's the space inside that makes the sound. 
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Wadidiz
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« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2007, 11:07 AM » |
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I got my first set of congas and bongos in the early 70s and didn't have any acquaintances who knew anything about hand drumming. I was a big fan of Santana, Malo and Azteca then and they were my only reference point. No internet either. Since I was into keyboards I assumed my drums should be set up in the same order as the keyboard: tones getting higher pitched going from left to right. Seemed natural to me.
In my new go with percussion I've followed the advice of the pros on the internet and set them up with tumba on the right since I'm right handed.
This thread makes me serious consider going back to what seemed natural to me before.
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chilledbongo
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« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2007, 02:01 PM » |
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since i wrote the first post a year ago, i have been reversing my setup so that i now play in the 'correct' pattern with quinto on the left and conga on the right. i actually have found that i get much much better slaps this way than the opposite. as an added bonus, i can still play 'backwards' too, so im at an advantage in setups where there is little room and i have to position the drums at something other than standard position such as front to back instead of side to side, or angled off to the ne or nw from the quinto between my legs. its a definite help to be ambidextrous on the congas, i think. 
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Bart Elliott
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« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2007, 08:20 AM » |
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its a definite help to be ambidextrous on the congas, i think.  I always work on being able to play in a wide variety of set-ups. Sometimes that can be tough because the patterns are complex, and switching the drum's position radically affects which hand goes where. Working with a variety of set-ups, like reversing the Conga and Tumba in 3 drum set-up, can be very time consuming practice wise ... but well worth the results. When it comes to playing particular grooves and tumbaos, I think being able to use just one drum, two drums, and three drum set-ups is imperative. You never know what your situation is going to be, so being prepared is extremely advantageous.
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My doctor says it's bad for my blood pressure if my mind is blown for more than five minutes at a time.
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