bongo
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« on: December 17, 2006, 02:11 AM » |
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I've played drum solos since I was a kid and into Gene Krupa, Sandy Nelson, and Ron Bushy. I still solo nightly on gigs.
I believe that solo improv is important in learning how to express musical ideas and hearing/executing good fills. You reach the point where the brain doesn't get involved, it's just the ears and the hands.
We had a pretty strong wind storm here in the NW this week, the lights were out and I found myself playing at home in the dark. I liked my playing, the blackness enhanced it somehow, the sounds came from the left and the right in stereo, it was more like I wasn't there except as splashes of color in the dark. Dark playing might be a good technique to boost creativity.
Any others do extended solos? I know some of you will say you never do them, that you find them boring. It's hard to understand how a drummer (no less!) could say that.... I think they can be beautiful myself.
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drumnut1
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« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2006, 05:20 AM » |
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I do play solos but I usually incorperate them into the middle of a song. Also I will have to say that my brain stays 3 to 4 moves ahead of my self like doing martial arts. I do believe that it is all about being creative but I create in my head, then play it. Nutty
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Chip71
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« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2006, 08:05 AM » |
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Sandy Nelson done some good solo music that people rarely hear. "Let There Be Drums" was a favorite when I was a kid. (Or was that done by the Safaris? Gettin' old.  )....I still get tons of requests to do "Wipeout", but I do it "Chip style." It still sounds like the song, but with a little extra thrown in for an extended version. Good thing is, he doesn't do it like me either.  People must be slipping, I haven't had a "Wipeout" request for 2 weeks now..... Either that or I suck! Na, people get up and dance every time I play it. We start with "Wipeout", do a solo, go into another tune, and finish with "Wipeout".... It's long, but makes for a good time killer in the set. Now I've got "Let There Be Drums" on the brain....See what you did!!! Time for some coffee to try and shake it off....I love some of those old solos. 
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Gaddabout
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« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2006, 08:59 AM » |
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I've played drum solos since I was a kid and into Gene Krupa, Sandy Nelson, and Ron Bushy. I still solo nightly on gigs.
I believe that solo improv is important in learning how to express musical ideas and hearing/executing good fills. You reach the point where the brain doesn't get involved, it's just the ears and the hands.
We had a pretty strong wind storm here in the NW this week, the lights were out and I found myself playing at home in the dark. I liked my playing, the blackness enhanced it somehow, the sounds came from the left and the right in stereo, it was more like I wasn't there except as splashes of color in the dark. Dark playing might be a good technique to boost creativity.
Any others do extended solos? I know some of you will say you never do them, that you find them boring. It's hard to understand how a drummer (no less!) could say that.... I think they can be beautiful myself.
I was watching Steve Smith video at Vic Firth a couple of weeks ago. There were portions of the solo that struggled to keep my attention. Lots of tom and double bass flurries. Good chops, seen it before. Then he goes into a section where he's playing sixteenth notes on the snare, starting with straight sixteenths and moving to an ostinato, while improvising musically with his right hand around the toms and interacting with the bass drum and hi-hat. I'm sure my description sounds like it was bombastic, but it was incredibly beautiful to hear. {Check out Clip #2} I find myself trying to find different ways to solo -- different tempos, different meters, different interpretations of meter -- whenever I'm learning something new. As you say, I want my brain wrapped around the application. Outside of a clinic, though, I don't think the drum solo communicates to the modern audience. An entire corps of Cuban or Brazilian drummers will have it's declining rate of return for an American audience.
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bongo
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« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2006, 01:22 PM » |
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I was watching Steve Smith video at Vic Firth a couple of weeks ago. There were portions of the solo that struggled to keep my attention. Lots of tom and double bass flurries. Good chops, seen it before. Then he goes into a section where he's playing sixteenth notes on the snare, starting with straight sixteenths and moving to an ostinato, while improvising musically with his right hand around the toms and interacting with the bass drum and hi-hat. I'm sure my description sounds like it was bombastic, but it was incredibly beautiful to hear. {Check out Clip #2} I find myself trying to find different ways to solo -- different tempos, different meters, different interpretations of meter -- whenever I'm learning something new. As you say, I want my brain wrapped around the application. Outside of a clinic, though, I don't think the drum solo communicates to the modern audience. An entire corps of Cuban or Brazilian drummers will have it's declining rate of return for an American audience. For me the ostinato is the saving grace of solos. Audiences do respond when you develop solo ideas across the top of an underlying rhythm. The actual rhythms can be fairly simple, but the impact is from playing them simultaniously, and developing musical ideas. For instance, I'll play a simple 1 & 3 on the bass drum with an opposing clave' on a block, then do a call and answer 'jungle drum' on the top. It is nothing really great, but sounds like three guys, and I try to make it not just all about speed and rolls, but more like a composition. Through the years I've writin a number of these pieces, all of which can be switched around and played in various order. When I take a solo I need to condense it, I could very easily bore you for 30 minutes or more. So I've tried to put my best stuff together in an interesting way that lasts about 6-8 minutes, and work 6-8 compositions in that time, about a minute and a half a piece. In that time frame I play the underlying rhythm, add the parts, improv on top, then exit to the then next rhythm.
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Gaddabout
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« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2006, 02:33 PM » |
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For me the ostinato is the saving grace of solos. Audiences do respond when you develop solo ideas across the top of an underlying rhythm. The actual rhythms can be fairly simple, but the impact is from playing them simultaniously, and developing musical ideas. For instance, I'll play a simple 1 & 3 on the bass drum with an opposing clave' on a block, then do a call and answer 'jungle drum' on the top. It is nothing really great, but sounds like three guys, and I try to make it not just all about speed and rolls, but more like a composition. The difference in this ostinato is it was played entirely with his left hand on the snare (snares off) which I thought was unusual.
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bongo
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« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2006, 07:24 PM » |
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The difference in this ostinato is it was played entirely with his left hand on the snare (snares off) which I thought was unusual.
Yes, that's a very nice solo. There is a lot to explore with this ostinato thing. Since it is fairly difficult not a lot of people are doing it and I think there is the chance to cover new ground. The simplist ostinato is maybe soloing across a straight 4 on the bass drum a la In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida. Pretty simple, but the idea is to keep a separate counterpoint going, which is a great way to learn to incorporate fills/rolls into an underlying drum beat. Things get fun when you play one rhythm with one foot and another with the other, and solo across the top of that. If the rhythms are straight, it's simple, but gets more complex if they're syncopated. I've spent a lot of time on right foot casacara against a left foot clave. Sometimes in the middle I suddenly think 'hey, I can't do this!' .... then I screw up. 
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Ryno
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« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2006, 11:43 PM » |
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I know some of you will say you never do them, that you find them boring. It's hard to understand how a drummer (no less!) could say that.... I think they can be beautiful myself.
Hey bongo, I'll jump in and say that I hardly ever do them in a live setting or at practice. The music I'm into simply doesn't require any, so I stay away from them. My limited practice time is mostly spent working on grooves at many tempos, developing a consistent sound, experimenting with different drum sounds, and incorporating short, simple fills to announce/lead my band into a new section. Here's a good story of me doing a solo to HELP a gig... A few shows back, my guitarist broke a string. He has his backup 99% of the time so this usually isn't an issue. But alas, he had forgotten the backup on that night. One of my inebriated friends in the audience yelled out, "Hey Ryan! How about a drum solo?!" I looked around, got the audience and band approval, and proceeded to play a 5 minute solo while the guitarists changed out the broken string. I just stuck with a theme. Played a groove, moved the individual parts to different instruments (hi hat to floor tom, etc...), included some fills that I knew the people would enjoy (Elvin & Bonzo style triplets, etc...), and then completed the solo. From what I could tell, the crowd liked it and it saved face for the guitar player. As far as watching extended solos, I do find that I sometimes get bored. I can watch or listen to Lang, Minnemann, Grant Collins, and others like that for a while, but then my mind inevitably wanders. However, I could listen to Phil Rudd play "Back In Black" or Charlie Watts play "Beast Of Burden" THOUSANDS of times. Drummers like Lang and Minnemann are so advanced technically that I have a hard time even comprehending/decoding what they're playing, even when slowed down. Overall, I agree with every statement you made with your OP. My favorite extended drum solo is Joe Morello's "Shortnin' Bread" from the "Gone With The Wind" Dave Brubeck record. The drums sound wonderful, Morello is on fire and very musical, and there are a couple of stray rim hits to give us mortals hope! Well, I hope this was some form of positive contribution to the thread. 
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eardrum
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« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2006, 02:05 AM » |
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I do very extended solos, only because I can't get other musicians to play with me- some have lasted years  Just kidding. Actually, I love a well done extended solo. In fact I spent time after MD came out with their top 25 drum solos, collected the songs I didn't already have and burned em all on a MP3 CD. I keep it in the car and sometimes put it in to listen to one or two. I became a drummer listening to Toad many moons ago. My favorite solo over the last 10 years is Weckl's Cultural Concurrence - it's just a beautiful piece of music and seeing it live was amazing. I've played so many solos in my dreams (both on and off the kit) but I don't get a chance often to do one with the bands due to the nature of our music. One time, in church, our music director totally surprised me and the bass player. He was about to leave for another position so I guess he felt he didn't have anything to loose and completely unrehearsed in the middle of an instrumental part of a song told us to trade off some soloing. It was a lot of fun but I didn't do anything fancy since I was completely caught off guard. We've just started to play a song with my other band that has percussion break where the hand percussionist and I trade 8s for a little while. It's worked out really well but I can't say it's an "extended" solo. I agree that for a lot of audiences, they'll get lost and bored if you don't keep an ostinato going. Unless of course it's a Buddy Rich, Neil Peart or Weckl type show where the audience expects several extended solos OR a jazz club where the audience is (dare I say it) a little more sophisticated and open to hear good musicians including drummers play what they're feeling at the moment.
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paul
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« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2006, 08:50 AM » |
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In the small jazz groups I play with my solos tend to be either 4-8 bars or are full choruses. In either case, I maintain the form as much as possible. I occasionally get an open solo, and it will be completely improvised. Again, I try to keep the feel of the song.
In my rock band I do an open solo every night on the Allman Bros. tune "Hot 'Lanta." Length and content depend on how I feel that night and what's in my head, although I have a couple of things that I do (almost) every time.
My big band leader is not a fan of long drum solos, but did write a chart on "Little Drummer Boy" for our Xmas cd that has an open solo for me, and we did it last weekend at a Xmas concert. As usual, I wasn't sure what I'd do till I did it. Must have worked out ok, though. He said somebody came to the cd table and when asked which disc he wanted answered, "The one with the most drum solos."
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kohei
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« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2006, 10:44 AM » |
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I heard Roy Haynes Friday night and he opened a piece (actually more of a segue between pieces) with an extended open (no external form) drum solo. He didn't seem to have a problem keeping anybody's interest.
If you're making music, you won't have a problem communicating to anyone on the stand or in the audience. If all you are doing is trying **** out or hitting stuff because you like the movement your arms make when you do that, it's gonna be harder to make that connection.
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« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2006, 12:56 PM » |
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As a drummer I kind of shy away from extended solo because I think it really takes a lot of time to put together a decent one that won't lose the audience's attention. It is a lot more than just going up there and blowing a lot of licks. I lean more toward the in song type of solos such as "AJA" and things like that.
A few weeks ago my guitar player, buddy, asked me to go the the local Guitar Center with him on 14th St. so he could look at some acoustic models.
When we entered the store we discovered that they were having the regional drum offs there, and they were due to start within 15 minutes so we stuck around. I'm not sure where all of the contestants were from but I saw guys from Maryland, Ohio, New York and Boston. Sean Pelton and two other NY drummers were the judges.
I was surprised that each player had 5 minutes of time. 5 minutes is a LOT of time to fill if you don't have a lot to say.
Most of these guys had really good chops, and a few had some left foot clave exercises down, but mostly they were just playing a series of licks, some of the licks were pretty complicated, but as far as being able to construct a musical solo, they all were pretty dismal. They would mostly play a lick, then play another lick, overall most of them lacked cohesion. (for example: Playing a latin pattern for a few bars then stopping abruptly to do some rudiment work with little transition--it sounded like the needle skipped) That was my drummer's view, my friend's non-drummer, but equally important audience member/musician view was that, "most of these guys are good, but they have said all they are going to say at about 3 minutes, beyond that it just gets boring." I had to agree. (they didn't need to take all 5 minutes, the rules stated they could stop whenever they wanted).
The place was really packed, I'm assuming 90% of them were drummers, but in watching their reactions, they too started to lose some enthusiasm around the 3 minute mark. In watching the judges, I didn't really see them get too excited and high 5 each other over anyone's solo.
So in the right context I like extended solos if done well. You can shoot me for saying this, but I don't like Moby Dick, but I like Buddy Rich's West Sdie Story solos (various versions).
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