Marcos
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« on: December 15, 2006, 07:37 PM » |
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I have been doing a little research on this and have learned that many drummers feel suspension mounting of the toms is a good thing. However, I am running across varying opinions on which system is best. Most go for the sound primarily but also mention looks, ease of use, universal compatibility, maintenance and how they affect the tom itself (stress/damage-wise).
I've not seen any discussion on this subject regarding mounting the toms on snare stands verses the suspension systems. Your thoughts? -thnx!
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eardrum
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« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2006, 12:29 AM » |
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never tried mounting em on snare stands. one of the problems with snare stands is the stand itself, I have three cymbal stands with legs that have to fit around or under the toms. mounted toms obviously free up a lot of space underneath. standard floor toms have skinny little legs that are easy to negotiate around.
FWIW, it's hard to mount a 16x16 or 18x16 floor tom so most of the kits I've seen with mounted "floor" toms use "fusion" sizes like 16x11. Also, the argument about mounted toms resonating better seems removed or minimized with the new rubber feet on standard tom legs that are real springy.
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Mister Acrolite
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« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2006, 12:49 AM » |
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I've never been able to mount a tom on a snare stand without its sound becoming very choked. But some people swear by this approach.
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Marcos
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« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2006, 01:34 PM » |
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... one of the problems with snare stands is the stand itself, I have three cymbal stands with legs that have to fit around or under the toms. mounted toms obviously free up a lot of space ... I would think cymbal boom-type stands could remedy this. Which is the best tom suspension mount system out there? |
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- Marcos********* "If you can play, you can play anything. I don't like classifications."
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Nathan
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« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2006, 02:31 PM » |
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I don't know if there's a "Best", but there are definitely some key things to look for.
For example:
Where does the mounting system attach to the drum?
Can you replace a drumhead without removing the mounting system?
Is the system easily removable for maintenance?
I've got Pearl I.S.S. mounts on my kit, and while they do the job, I cannot change heads without removing the mount from the rim. I also wonder if the pressure on the rims changes the tuning of the drum.
Nathan
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Chip71
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« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2006, 02:33 PM » |
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The mounting systems on both my Mapex and DW sets are similar by design. All 3 sets have a suspension system which allows the drums to give the most sustain. I can change heads without removing any suspension mounts on either of those systems. Don't get me wrong, I love my old Slingerlands that are mounted on the bass drum. But the systems available today are a big improvement over 30 years ago. Even tho shell design has changed using thinner plies, I think if I was to put a better suspension system on the old Slingerlands it would be a very noticeable improvement. In the case of both Mapex sets the toms are mounted on the bass drum, but the toms hang from a modern suspension system. In the case of my DW set I hang my toms from my cymbal stands with nothing on the bass drum. But the toms are once again mounted from a good suspension system. As far as the sound goes, each set has it's own sound. Which I've done changes by various heads. My favorite toms? Boy that's a tuff call.... They all sound good in their own way with decent suspension and heads. I might want to add that 2 sets have floor toms with legs, and 1 set has hanging floor toms. A change of heads, both batter and reso, can change everything. If I had to only choose one it would be my DW set.... Mainly because they look great and have nothing mounted on the bass drum. But all 3 sets have toms that sound pretty darn good.  As Mr.A mentioned, I also tried a tom on a snare stand. It chocked the sound even if you left it loose in the stand.  For some reason you notice it even more with a tom than with a snare. Odd, but true.... |
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Nathan
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« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2006, 02:40 PM » |
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The DW mounting system is super classy.  That's just a beautiful way to mount a tom. nudge nudge wink wink. Nate |
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eardrum
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« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2006, 09:00 PM » |
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I would think cymbal boom-type stands could remedy this.
For that matter, you could hang em from the ceiling or develop a magnetic levitation system. It won't hurt to experiement and try things out - who knows, you might find something nowone has tried before. I'd go with a rack before getting too far afield. As far as what is best, you'll get lots of different opinions on that. I like the RIM type mount system on my Taye but I also like the idea behind the Mapex Isolated Tom System (I just don't own one of those). And back to mounting on snare stand... I just think the toms are by nature too bouncy. I want my snare holding pretty solid but the floors toms can (and should) bounce a bit. I don't think that would work well on a snare stand. |
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Marcos
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« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2006, 07:05 PM » |
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I appreciate your responses. It "appears" to me that the tom-mount isolation systems from most of these companies are for their product only. Is this true? I'm assuming that Gibraltar's system is "universal" i.e. will adapt to any drum. However, it is rather ugly. Thnx all.
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Mister Acrolite
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« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2006, 07:15 PM » |
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I stick with the company that invented the technology: I use Gauger RIMS on all my toms. http://www.gaugerpercussion.com/ |
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« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2006, 07:33 PM » |
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I've never been able to mount a tom on a snare stand without its sound becoming very choked. But some people swear by this approach.
I agree with Keith on this ... however, I have had some positive results when I don't clamp down the drum. Whether its a Snare or Tom Tom, try not to clamp down on the drum. Keep the claws so that it's around the drum's rim, but not so tight that it can't move. Obviously this isn't a good idea if you are going to transport the drum while on the stand; you need to secure the drum by other means ... like your other hand or just remove the drum from the stand when moving it a lot. Try it sometime. While in the recording studio, I've had positive results with the Snare drum(s) when I don't tighten the stand's cradle; keep it loose. Toms are affected by this even more! As do I. Isn't it interesting that the guys in charge here at the Cafe use the same things?  Makes you wonder if maybe we know what we are talking about sometimes. Nah ... it's just coincidence I'm sure. |
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eardrum
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« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2006, 02:15 AM » |
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....For that matter, you could hang em from the ceiling or develop a magnetic levitation system......
Sometimes I amaze myself! I said this in jest but then got to thinking about it. Turns out someone already got a patent on the idea. Check out US Patent 4779509 at http://patft.uspto.gov/netahtml/PTO/search-bool.html Anyone know of a actual product?? |
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Chip71
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« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2006, 07:10 AM » |
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Isn't it interesting that the guys in charge here at the Cafe use the same things? Makes you wonder if maybe we know what we are talking about sometimes. Nah ... it's just coincidence I'm sure. Just to give you an idea of how much contribution this thread has....Gary Gauger who invented "RIMS" also has a "registered trademark" with DW for some of their suspension products. Thanks to that patent information that eardrum supplied, I also found out I have a bass drum muffleing device in my case which dates back to 1927.... You guys are so good I would have never known these things.  By the way, Gary only lives about 20 minutes from me.... I have to make it a point to have coffee with the guy sometime. Thanks guys....Awesome info!  This may help people understand tom suspension even more.... http://www.gaugerpercussion.com/suspension.html |
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paul
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« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2006, 09:55 AM » |
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I'm not a big fan of RIMS, and have YESS mounts on all my toms. I'm not worried about resale, and any difference in sound is exceptionally minimal. YESS also lets me get my toms very close together, and changing heads is much easier.
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« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2006, 10:04 AM » |
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It's funny this came up. I was playing this weekend and noticed an ocillation in my hanging floor tom that I had not noticed before. I was like- this is weird but in a cool way. I knew the things' were pretty much in tune but this really stuck out for some reason. I then hit my 12. Same thing only the ocillation was moving faster (smaller drum- higher freq.) and the same with the 10". So for grins I held the hanging floor still and hit it. Ocillation was gone. Same with the other toms. The Sonor mounts really swing and are rubber mounted, so the sound kinda reminds me slightly of when you crash a larger cymbal and the decay is ocillating with how the cymbal is moving. I don't know if I like this or not- I think I do because I like the effect, sort of like a delay or something. It's subtle but really surprised me. I have controlled sustain with positioning toms at different lengths on the arms before, but this delay/ocillation thing I noticed was a new one on me. |
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Sonor, The Drummers Drum
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KEW
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« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2006, 10:54 AM » |
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And something for those who can’t spend a lot of money but still feel the need to drum.
Old flat base snare stands (I prefer Slingerland). They don’t clamp tight on the rim so there’s less choking and if you add a fifty cent hose clamp from the hardware store they’re stable.
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Chris -
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« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2006, 12:08 PM » |
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I use Pearl Tom stands with RIMS suspension, and they are GREAT. I used the Yamaha mounts - but the ball would strip and not stay put.
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« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2006, 12:19 PM » |
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I've never been able to mount a tom on a snare stand without its sound becoming very choked. But some people swear by this approach.
I just got an old Ludwig drumset, and i'm not too happy with the mounting system off the bass drum. So, i decided to mount the 12" tom on a snare stand. I had the same problem, with it sounding choked. Then, i tried putting some foam on the snare stand (where the rim sits on the drum). The foam strips isolate the tom from the stand, but the foam doesn't touch or muffle the reso head. It sounds great! I was so proud of myself for coming up with such a simple, household fix. |
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« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2006, 12:39 PM » |
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I've never been a big fan of mounting a tom on a snare stand. It sort of limits your options with height and angle. I think a rack give you the most flexibility. . . followed by hanging toms from stands.
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Nathan
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« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2006, 12:54 PM » |
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Thanks for that link to Gauger Percussion! I think a few of those might be in order when I get some spare cash.
Now...what color would I want...hmm...
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Yer off the edge of the map now, mate. Here there be monkeys on crack!
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