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Author Topic: "Jim Walker's DIY Bop Kit Builder's Blog"  (Read 6279 times)
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byronand
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« Reply #60 on: January 06, 2007, 07:38 PM »

Wow!
Nice going James! They look fantastic and sound wonderful!
I'm astounded that you cut the edges with a rasp. What do you suppose the difference might be -- if any -- if you had them precision-cut on a router?
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« Reply #61 on: January 06, 2007, 08:09 PM »

They sound great (look great, too!).  What's your tuning technique?  Both heads the same?  One higher then the other?  They have a nice round sound to them!
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« Reply #62 on: January 06, 2007, 08:29 PM »

Great work James!  You got that built before I even got the parts for my snare in!
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jameswalker
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« Reply #63 on: January 06, 2007, 08:38 PM »

Thanks for the kind words, folks! 

In no particular order...

...yeah, the bass drum really seems to be the "star" of this kit so far, in looks and sound alike.  It has a Remo Powerstroke 3 batter with a square pad of moleskin, and a Remo Ambassador (coated) on the front, with no other muffling.  The batter is fairly loose (not "wrinkle-loose," but loose), and the reso is tuned higher.  I originally tried recording the kit only with the overhead mic's, and there wasn't anywhere near enough bass drum in the sound, so I put up a PZM right in front of the bass.  I haven't heard the kit from "out front," so I can't say with 100% certainty exactly how accurate the recording is in terms of the sound and volume of the bass drum.  However, in person the drum certainly has some "nuts" to it, that's for sure!

...Dave, my "tuning technique" is very complicated:  "Get in there and start turning tension rods 'til it sounds good."  Wink  Usually, my toms end up with the reso about a minor third higher in pitch than the batter.  After making the sound files linked above, I started experimenting with the tuning, to see how the drums would sound tuned down (aiming for that "Manu Katche" sort of sound), and I realized that the 10" tom, as heard on the mp3s, was tuned with both heads about the same pitch.

The toms have single-ply coated heads at the moment - some new, some old and well-worn, and of a variety of brands.  I plan to do some experimenting, tho - my Ludwig toms are the thicker 6-ply maple/poplar shells, and I've never spent a lot of time with thin-shell drums, so I'll probably go pick up a bunch of different 10" or 12" heads and see what works.  I'm thinking of eventually adding a larger bass drum, and maybe another tom or two (an 8" rack, and/or a 16" floor), so I can do the official Keith Cronin "Mix and Match" thing depending on the gig.  I know these will sound great at a jazz tuning, but I want to see what else I can get them to do.

...In terms of drill bits, I just used a general set of bits picked up at the hardware store.  They aren't Forstner bits, and I don't think they're brad point, but I'll have to check on that.  Truth be told, I did get a little tear-out here and there, but nothing horrible, and nothing that isn't concealed by the mounting screws.  Having a drill press is a big help - it's so much easier to control how quickly the bit is cutting into the shell.  With the holes that had to be drilled by hand (because my drill press isn't big enough to get the shell that far in), I usually begin by using a very small bit, then gradually increasing up until I get to the 1/4" holes that most of the hardware required.  I don't know if that's a valid woodworking technique, but I find that it minimizes the tear-out I get.

The best measure against tear-out, however, is one you probably already know, which is to have some sort of backing piece pressed against the interior of the shell where the bit will cut through.  That, and having nice sharp bits.

...The fact that I cut the edges with a rasp...hmmm...again, this clearly is the "do as I say, not as I do" portion of the blog.  I'm sure that there are some imperfections in the edge that one wouldn't get using a router table, but I went very slowly and methodically, and was very strict about cutting in only as far as a specific ply, to maintain an edge that is in true and in round.  The basic shape is about the same, tho - I seem to be capable of keeping a very consistent angle around the circumference of the drum. 

Had I used a router table, I would have aimed for the very same shape, so in that sense, there isn't a whole lot of difference.  I've just heard horror stories about guys developing their skills cutting edges with a router, and I didn't want to tear up an edge because of my incompetence with the router. One of these days, I'll learn how to do this properly, but I've cut the edges on several drums this way, as well as numerous snare beds, and the results seem to work fine every time.  We'll see if I notice any problems the longer I live with these drums, but so far, so good.
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jameswalker
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« Reply #64 on: January 09, 2007, 11:24 PM »

Just a few more minor updates as the blog winds down...

1)  In checking out the drums at a lower tuning, I ran into some troubles with the 12" tom.  The sound was OK, but the feel was a bit strange.  Turns out that I left too much of a "flat" on the bearing edge, on the batter side edge, compared to the other toms.  I went back and recut the inside face of the edge to make the "flat" narrower (made the edge sharper, basically) - problem solved.  (Sound files to follow - it's a little late to record anything tonight.)  I had originally thought that the problem might lie in the fact that there are no vents drilled in any of these drums, but now that the edges are what they need to be, I'm really not noticing any difference due to the lack of vents.

2)  I mentioned earlier that I've got another use for the Pearl ISS mounts I acquired for this project, since I opted to use RIMS mounts on the rack toms.  Here's what I'm trying with it:

http://www.malletjazz.com/drums/bopkit/bopkit_071.jpg
http://www.malletjazz.com/drums/bopkit/bopkit_072.jpg

When I bought my shells, the supplier included a few scrap pieces, which I originally planned to use just to test out the dye.  However, the scraps were a pretty good size, and they look like they came from a 20" shell originally, so I decided to glue the scraps together and make an attachment to use if I want to play cascara on the floor tom.  I spent a lot of time working on the finish of these drums, so I'm not in any hurry to start whacking on said finish with a drum stick - so this is the substitute.  Unlike a similar device sold by Yamaha, this one attaches (and detaches) much more easily.  It's still a "work in progress," as I'm not 100% sold on the sound of it - it's a thinner sound than striking directly on the shell, and one gets a lot of sympathetic vibrations from the head, as this is attached to the batter side counterhoop.  I'm going to experiment with gaskets between the shell fragment and the ISS mount.

I may also experiment with something in place of the shell fragment - maybe add some more wood to it, or try a synthetic or metal piece instead, or get a new piece of wood and cut something that will sound more like a wood block or the like.
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« Reply #65 on: January 10, 2007, 10:03 AM »

Interesting idea with the cascara pieces, James. Very innovative. But, if you can't get the sound you're looking for out of it, may I suggest mounting something else to the ISS mounts?

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« Reply #66 on: January 10, 2007, 10:59 AM »

Yeah! Geek it out!  Grin

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« Reply #67 on: January 10, 2007, 04:21 PM »

Outstanding James.

Looks and sounds tremendous!

Bravo

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jameswalker
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« Reply #68 on: January 10, 2007, 04:33 PM »

Oh, what the heck - like this thread isn't self-indulgent enough as it is:   Grin

Here's a quick sound file from earlier today demonstrating the "cascara attachment" - not bad, but it could still use some work, IMO:

http://www.malletjazz.com/drums/bopkit/bopkitlow_05.mp3

Oh, why not - here's one more clip, also recorded today, demonstrating the (somewhat) lower tuning of the toms:

http://www.malletjazz.com/drums/bopkit/bopkitlow_02.mp3

For those of you keeping score at home, I did add a bit of EQ and compression to the recordings this time around.
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felix
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« Reply #69 on: January 10, 2007, 07:25 PM »

Your toms and kick for that matter have a really baloon like quality to them.  Kudos.

Your snare has a nice 3D slap to it but the buzz is killing me.   Sad 
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jameswalker
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« Reply #70 on: January 11, 2007, 10:11 AM »

Your toms and kick for that matter have a really baloon like quality to them.  Kudos.

Thanks, Felix.  File this one under "even a blind squirrel finds an acorn now and then."  Wink

Quote
Your snare has a nice 3D slap to it but the buzz is killing me.   Sad 

It's an acquired taste, but within the context of this kit, I'm actually learning to dig it. 

This particular snare drum definitely is the culprit - I don't get anywhere near as much sympathetic buzz if I put other snare drums up on this kit.  It's probably the Noble & Cooley wires, as much as anything else - I've tried some other wires on it, and the change does diminish the amount of sympathetic vibrations, but this snare drum really seems to love a lot of "snare sound" in the equation.

I've thought about deepening the beds in the snare drum, which would cut down on the buzz, but I like the basic sound of the drum, so I'm really hesitant to make any alterations.  I'd rather live with the buzz - it's not that bad...   Wink
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felix
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« Reply #71 on: January 11, 2007, 12:19 PM »

Just had to pull your leg a little that's all- he he he no good deed goes unpunished  Grin

Yes, the noble and cooley wires on that steam bent deal I was playing were really noisy, but pretty fluffy sounding like your "buzz" I guess.

I just don't like buzz in the studio.  Because there is always that killer fill that I spent who knows how long nailing only to hear the buzz underneath it.  It's just one of my pet peeves.
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« Reply #72 on: January 11, 2007, 02:16 PM »

I'm getting to where I like to have a little buzz when I'm playing. But I don't like when it wears off!  Ba-dum chh!

Seriously though, I like some buzz because (on my kit anyway) when I play the toms and kick with my snares off, they sound flat. I'm not sure about the buzz levels on James' kit...I'm kinda with Felix there...but a little buzz is not a bad thing. to me anyway  Cheesy
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jameswalker
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« Reply #73 on: January 11, 2007, 02:24 PM »

I'll mention one thing about the sympathetic vibrations in those last clips.  FWIW, the sound files were recorded with two overhead mic's (and a PZM in front of the bass drum), so you're largely getting the drummer's perspective on this.  I haven't had the drums out on a gig yet, so I can't say one way or the other how much of this buzzing would carry out to the audience, or even to the rest of the band.

I'll have to do another sound file.  I just cranked up the drums into a nice healthy bop range, and I'm not getting anywhere near the vibrations that are demonstrated above.  I also tried a few other snare drums on the kit at the previously-demonstrated tom tunings, and outside of the ten (which more often than not is a "problem child" where this sort of thing is concerned), the buzz is significantly less.
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jameswalker
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« Reply #74 on: June 01, 2007, 12:46 AM »

OK, I know I'm committing a venial sin by dredging up such an old thread, and nobody's gonna care at this point, but so be it - I feel like updating one or two things, now that I've lived with the kit for a few months.

I've really only made one significant change to the kit since I last posted to this thread.  I drilled the bass drum to add a Ludwig tom mount.  I did it primarily for reasons of convenience, but I did notice one change in the sound of one of the drums (which is why I think it's worth mentioning.)

The 8x12 rack tom had been giving me fits for the past month or so - I simply couldn't get it to sound good when set up on the kit.  It sounded fine when I held it by the counterhoop, but whenever I'd mount it on the kit, it became choked, and I could never get the heads to "clear."  As soon as I installed the mount on the bass drum and put the kit together, the 12 sounded decidedly better - and I got everything tuned up in about 30 seconds.

Now, I can't figure out for the life of me why there was a problem.  I had the tom mounted to a bracket clamped on a cymbal stand - pretty standard stuff.  Not only was the tom having trouble in its own right, I noticed that when I hit the tom, I could hear the rivet buzzing in a cymbal clamped to the same stand.  Somehow, a fair amount of energy was getting transferred to the stand, even with the RIMS mount in use.  It makes no sense to me that such a mounting setup would cause problems with the drum, but that's what my ears told me.

Anyway...here she is in her finished state. 
These photos were taken at a gig this past Wednesday, with my steel pan trio.  I brought the kit out for my drummer to use, so I could hear the drums from out front "in context.".  (Those are his cymbals, tho, not mine - I should be so lucky...)





I don't see myself making any more alterations to the kit, although I may build a 20" bass drum for it in the future (the 18 didn't quite cut it on my outdoor steel pan gig), or give die cast hoops a try on the toms.  In terms of these drums, tho, I think the project has run its course.
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« Reply #75 on: June 01, 2007, 01:14 AM »

I'm late to the party, but ...

Wow.  Amazing stuff. 
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« Reply #76 on: June 01, 2007, 06:47 AM »

So, how did they sound "out front", Jim? They look gorgeomous.
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« Reply #77 on: June 01, 2007, 07:50 AM »

When do you start taking orders?     Smiley
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« Reply #78 on: June 01, 2007, 08:18 AM »

Beautiful, James.
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jameswalker
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« Reply #79 on: June 01, 2007, 09:29 AM »

Thanks for the kind words, guys.  Smiley

So, how did they sound "out front", Jim?

Not bad - but now that I've settled in on the head choices I want on the toms ("clear batter, coated reso"), I need to get some fresh heads on these puppies.  The "used" heads have served their purpose, allowing me to experiment with various combinations ("coated batter, clear reso...clear batter, coated reso...coated top and bottom..." etc.) - now I know how I want to spend my money.
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