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« on: January 12, 2007, 10:41 PM » |
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After the merger of my company, I was informed that my job is being absorbed by the "giant" company.
We were told that the possibility of being laid off was pretty high so Ive been preparing myself for the blow especially since this would be my 4th time being laid off.
At my wifes suggestion, I decided to make the plunge and see if I could make a career out of being a full time musician. I know....she's cool....I think I'll stay married to her.
Ive been playing for 20+ years but Ive never had to deal with the business side of music. It was always handled by another band member. Marketing knowledge is so important.
Ive been advertising myself for gigs and teaching consistently on Craigslist. The teaching responses have been emails from "parents" in the UK seeking lessons for their kids to keep them busy after school with the "Ill need for you to deposit a check for me so Ill be able to pay for the tuition". Scammers…….jeez.
The gig opportunities have been interesting. Most of the paying situations (covers) are started with, "whats your minimum pay requirement?" I cant even get an audition without stating my minimum and/or my gig expectancy. But I can understand that too, because I dont want to waste my time auditioning for a band where our compensation expectancies dont match. And to top it off, as soon as I mention Im a full time musician, Im immediately labeled as a musician who plays only for the money. Ive actually been told that too. "I dont like working with full time musicians because soon as the money is not there, theyre gone and Im left finding a replacement".
I cant get gigs because of the label of being a full time musician. And I cant be a full time musician if I dont get any gigs. I know there are other things I could look into that arent music related (I think I saw that in MD).
1. Does anyone deal with this stigma?
2. Should I quote a monthly minimum? An hourly minimum?
3. Why wouldnt someone/a band want a full time musician? We show up on time, were prepared and if youre a full time musician you really have to deliver the goods…..every single time. References are important in this business or any type of freelance business.
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Gaddabout
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« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2007, 12:48 AM » |
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My first response is I couldn't work with someone who thought that of full-time musicians because it means: 1) They've never been successful 2) It's not likely they will be successful 3) The gig is a hobby for the guy doing the hiring 4) That's probably why other musicians have bailed on him before 5) It means if I did take the gig, I could expect lowered expectations of the other musicians 6) He's wasting my time I could go on, but these are just initial, instinctive responses. You're in a tough area to break into the business, but you need to find a way to meet other working, full-time musicians. In your case, in your neighborhood, joining the union might be a good start. There are lots of gigs where you live that you can't do (film work to name one) without a union card. There are clubs you couldn't play, players who wouldn't play with you, without a union card. If you're serious, scrounge together the money and go join. Your next job is to find out where all the union players are playing and hunt them down. Talk to people, but also be aware your market is very competitive, and there will be more than a few people who scowl at new meat/competition. It's really the only way to get plugged in short of growing up next door to the next Steve Lukather or going to a school where lots of future working pros congregate. Keep on the lookout at the union boards and in the papers for things like: wedding bands, corporate gigs, cattle calls, etc. Do them all, as much as your time and energy will allow. Wedding bands are great to start out because it's usually a steady paycheck and your bound to have bandmates who do music more than part-time. It's also a possibility the wedding band is a cover band that plays a few club dates. That's more money in your pocket. A little bit more advice: While you have the time, make sure you have your traveling rig in tip-top shape. Use your free time to game plan things like what you keep in your stick bag, putting together a spare parts tool box, taking inventory of things like heads, making sure your pedals are in perfect working order and not a jerk short of popping a chain, etc. If and when you do start getting more work, you'll be looking for more free time to do stuff just like that.  The afternoon of my third gig with a wedding band, my father suddenly decided he wanted his truck back and I had to use my Trans-Am to transport gear. It took me about two hours to figure out how to fit all my gear in that car. It involved removing the t-tops, and it's a good thing it doesn't rain often around here! LOL I wish I had used my free time to game plan scenarios like that ...
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Rich452
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« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2007, 03:14 AM » |
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The afternoon of my third gig with a wedding band, my father suddenly decided he wanted his truck back and I had to use my Trans-Am to transport gear. It took me about two hours to figure out how to fit all my gear in that car. It involved removing the t-tops, and it's a good thing it doesn't rain often around here! LOL I wish I had used my free time to game plan scenarios like that ...
I actually know of another drummer who had the same problem of fitting a set of drums in a Trans Am...... It can be done!!!!! That extra horsepower comes in handy when making multiple trips!!!!
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Chris Whitten
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« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2007, 05:28 AM » |
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It's tough out there. Good luck. The only consolation..... From my observations, the acting world is even more brutal.
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felix
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« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2007, 05:46 AM » |
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yeah it is.
It's hard making it in anything anymore. The competition is fierce. And say you do get in a band that pays? Unless you guys can really draw the money isn't going to be much. I'd be surprised if you could work 5 days a week too. And if you give the guys too much crap about money and make a big deal out of it, you will probably get kicked out.
Just tell them anything and play what they want to hear. Pick up a bunch of students if you can.
As far as "stigma" goes- you are who you are. If you are a slimeball or a saint. it's going to get around in any field you choose I would guess.
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bdrums
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« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2007, 08:33 AM » |
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It's taken me a solid year, but I've managed to join an incredible original band, pick up 30 students a week, and a 3 Sunday a month church gig. I'm making more money than I ever was at any previous job doing what I love most. It takes time, but it can be done. And as cliche' as it sounds, it's ALL about who you know. Those interpersonal skills come in real handy!  Chin up my friend! If being a full time drummer is what you want, go get it! And don't let some unsuccessful guitar player and his stigmas about "full time musicians" hold you back!
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Mister Acrolite
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« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2007, 09:37 AM » |
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It's common to see clashing priorities and values between fulltime musicians and part-timers, and frankly, I think it's a shame. But that's reality, so be prepared, be flexible, and be diplomatic, and take charge of your career. Good luck.
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« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2007, 12:21 AM » |
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Thanks everyone for the feedback. I had an incident yesterday where I told one of my musician friends (he's a weekend musician) that I'm actually a full time musician now.......just the look on his face. Sort of like this  . He thought I made the worst decision ever and just continued to say one negative thing over and over. All I could think was, "jeez, thanks for the support buddy". One piece of advice I did get from talking with a full time drummer/percussionist was that it is tough, it's competitive.....just like what was said in this thread. But he did finish saying, "it's important to surround yourself with people who are going to be supportive". c
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Chris Whitten
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« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2007, 02:37 AM » |
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On the negative side, yes it's tough, it can't be denied. But on the positive side, if it's what you want to do, the toughness kind of washes over you without pulling you down. You learn to take comfort in small victories. I don't regret a minute of it.
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« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2007, 09:05 PM » |
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I see a lot of opportunities to play original music. I want to do more of these but there's no money in it at least from the beginning. I feel like I should be saying "yes" to everything to just get the name out there. But at the same time, I'm not in a financial position to say yes to everything.
I'm already seeing, "I like music but the musicians are kinda difficult to work with" and then there's the "I'm not really into the music but the musicians are way cool".
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« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2007, 09:11 PM » |
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I'm already seeing, "I like music but the musicians are kinda difficult to work with" and then there's the "I'm not really into the music but the musicians are way cool".
If it was that easy everyone would be doing it. It takes a lot of work to be able to do what you enjoy.
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« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2007, 04:21 AM » |
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It's a business. Would you rather be working in a factory? With that in mind, number one task is to see some income rolling in. It doesn't matter if you don't like the music or the musicians involved. After you have a bit of cash flow happening, you can start to think about playing good music, or finding some musicians you like. Thing is...... 75% of professional musicians would just like to be making a living playing music. Nice music and nice people are a bonus.
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« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2007, 04:47 AM » |
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Our big band has a combination of "pros" and amateurs and I understand some bands' reluctance to hire pros.
The main problem we have had with some of the pros is their lack of reliability (what you would least expect from a pro). That is, they will bail at the last minute for a better paying job. We have a lot of alternates on our call list so finding a sub is usually not a problem, as long as we have time to find one.
Our policy has generally been that if you commit to a gig, you are expected to do it or provide your own suitable sub. Several of the "pros" (who are no longer with us) would just call at the last minute and say "sorry".
As for not being willing to do the necessary (and fun) free gigs such as community concerts and festivals, it seems to be the amateurs who do not want to play if they aren't getting paid.
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« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2007, 04:55 PM » |
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It's a business. Would you rather be working in a factory? With that in mind, number one task is to see some income rolling in. It doesn't matter if you don't like the music or the musicians involved. After you have a bit of cash flow happening, you can start to think about playing good music, or finding some musicians you like. Thing is...... 75% of professional musicians would just like to be making a living playing music. Nice music and nice people are a bonus.
Thanks CW - for some reason I never thought about playing music I didn't like. I know that sounds sort of stupid but my situation IS different now and I really can't be choosing my situations at this point. c
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« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2007, 05:10 PM » |
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I find things to like in situations I don't like. My previous point is (simplified), if you aren't earning money playing the drums, you wont be a professional musician for long. Anyway, like I said, if I'm working on a project where I dislike the music, I concentrate on doing the best job I can. A lot of enjoyment can be obtained by being satisfied with a job well done. I have to admit I've taken a lot of gratification from the joy my clients have exhibited too. Nothing better than a chorus of, 'wow you're an amazing drummer, we love what you've brought to the band/project'. Most drummers seem to like music that is generally low paid; jazz, fusion, progressive, even drum solos! Therefore, most likely we will all be spending the majority of our working time playing music that isn't our cup of tea.
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« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2007, 05:44 PM » |
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Just to underscore Chris' comments, I hate country music, find little inspiration in playing along, and would never listen to it if my wife didn't like it. HOWEVER, in the Western and Southern U.S. , it would be hard to find better paying gigs than a country gig. We're talking about regular work. A halfway decent country cover band could probably find work 7 days a week if it wanted to in Arizona, Colorado, large portions of California, western Oregon, Idaho, Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, and the entire Bible Belt.
I've been afforded opportunities to sit in for friends with some of the better country gigs in my area, and it's been an eye-opener. Not only is the musicianship top notch, but there's definitely more to the drumming gig than playing a two-step. I've since started attending some of these shows just to watch, and I'm starting to understand more of the music.
Anyway, when you go into an unfamiliar scene, the best thing you could possibly do is drop your biases and preconceptions. We all have them, but I've learned that part of being a full-time pro is being able to get past those cultural things that we often associate with music.
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« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2007, 08:57 PM » |
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I've been coming back to this thread, reading what everyone has to say, and I still don't really understand the 'stigma' part. Maybe because the musicians I've come in contact with the last couple years are either full-time players, or used to tour, or WANT to be full-time players - but I've never encountered a 'stigma', actually quite the opposite. I mean, I'm totally discounting what a 'weekend warrior' might say about it because who the hell cares? Maybe I'm over-simplifying, but I could care less about someone's 'armchair quarterback' negative opinion.
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Gaddabout
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« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2007, 09:48 PM » |
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I've been coming back to this thread, reading what everyone has to say, and I still don't really understand the 'stigma' part. Maybe because the musicians I've come in contact with the last couple years are either full-time players, or used to tour, or WANT to be full-time players - but I've never encountered a 'stigma', actually quite the opposite. I mean, I'm totally discounting what a 'weekend warrior' might say about it because who the hell cares? Maybe I'm over-simplifying, but I could care less about someone's 'armchair quarterback' negative opinion.
If anything, I think there is a stigma of being a part-timer around full-timers. If you play as infrequently as I do, you learn there aren't many everyday pros who want to hear your opinions on music. That's fine, because I figure they've earned something for their trouble. With each new person, it seems there's a rite of passage you have to make before they think of you as a real person. I basically play as best I can and keep my mouth shut. I smile a lot. Laugh when appropriate. Shake hands, go home, hoping my playing did all my talking.
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« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2007, 10:01 PM » |
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I've been coming back to this thread, reading what everyone has to say, and I still don't really understand the 'stigma' part. Maybe because the musicians I've come in contact with the last couple years are either full-time players, or used to tour, or WANT to be full-time players - but I've never encountered a 'stigma', actually quite the opposite. I mean, I'm totally discounting what a 'weekend warrior' might say about it because who the hell cares? Maybe I'm over-simplifying, but I could care less about someone's 'armchair quarterback' negative opinion.
Maybe the stigma is related to the type of music scene in specific areas? IMHO the music scene in the San Francisco area is not very good. There are a lot of clubs closing down and many of the larger clubs are resorting to DJs. I'm also noticing a combination of DJs and live music (band takes a break - the DJ comes on). Maybe this is making things more competitive and causing more negative vibes.....I don't know. I've been doing the full time thing now for 3 months and I pretty much hear the same thing about full time musicians....."they ONLY play for the money". This is coming from the full time musicians (band leaders) and the weekend warriors.
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« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2007, 01:36 AM » |
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Well to a certain extent professional musicians have to look at the bottom line. However, there is ill feeling on both sides (obviously). For years I've been branded a 'bread head', just for doing diverse projects and sometimes engaging in more commercial gigs than artsy ones. I was criticised by a few friends for accepting the McCartney gig instead of soldiering on at the coalface of indie rock. I just look at some of my heroes; Andy Newmark, Jeff Porcaro for example. What was their fun gig to paid gig ratio? Probably 25%/75% (the latter a commercial money gig).
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