equipmentdork
Silver Member
 Offline
Posts: 260
When you least expect it, expect it!
|
 |
« on: December 28, 2007, 12:10 PM » |
|
I realize that this drum is in demand. Heck, it might be THE snare of all time. However, there have to be thousands of them out there. 60's keystone, 70's/80's blue-olive, more recent large keystones, you name it. Many of them are pitted to the point of peeling. What's your take on why the prices are so out of control? Deeper Bonham ones notwithstanding, it just doesn't seem to make sense that a garden variety drum is so costly.
BTW I bought a late 90's one in mint condition for $125 just a few years ago.
Dan
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
diddle
supporter
Gold Member
 Online
Posts: 671
I love to play chess and sip coffee!
|
|
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2007, 12:40 PM » |
|
Ebay is an excellent vehicle to get product out to a huge market quickly. There are Sooo many pawn shops that use Ebay to determine market values... and plenty of buyers who get caught up in the bidding frenzy.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Chris Whitten
Honorary Cafe VIP
Platinum Member
Online
Posts: 5898
|
|
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2007, 04:19 PM » |
|
Expensive? Really?
Not from where I sit.
A decent new snare drum will cost anything from $300 to $1500.
Finding a vintage instrument with so much pedigree for less than $300 is a bargain IMO.
The 5" drums are particularly cheap. The 6.5" versions are verging on expensive these days with the Bonham effect.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Paicey
Platinum Member
Offline
Posts: 1552
I love the Drummer Cafe!
|
|
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2007, 04:34 PM » |
|
I had a shot at a 5x14 70's chrome superphonic locally near mint! for 125 and it would have sat in the store for years at 200. Ive seen things on ebay that went for twice what it would have locally. Ive said it a hundred times, ive never gotten a steal on ebay and the price things go for always surprises me. Thats why Ebay is what it is, a world wide! flea market.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
equipmentdork
Silver Member
Offline
Posts: 260
When you least expect it, expect it!
|
|
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2007, 07:32 PM » |
|
Expensive? Really?
Not from where I sit.
A decent new snare drum will cost anything from $300 to $1500.
Finding a vintage instrument with so much pedigree for less than $300 is a bargain IMO.
The 5" drums are particularly cheap. The 6.5" versions are verging on expensive these days with the Bonham effect.
Really, though, new ones, which sound phenomenal and not unlike the older ones, go for around $300. Why should a used, pitted one from the '70's go for over $200(which I've seen a lot)? The law of supply and demand should dictate that these drums are as common as dirt.....maybe this is why I have a day job, ha ha! P.S. Chris, just came across your pic in Geoff Nicholls's Drum Book. Dan |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Chris Whitten
Honorary Cafe VIP
Platinum Member
Online
Posts: 5898
|
|
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2007, 07:48 PM » |
|
Well I guess in part because something so cheap initially can't be worth much less, even used.....and in part because many people perceive vintage as better. I probably fall into that trap myself. Anyway, your point is taken, although I say $200-300 for a world class snare is still cheap. Regarding Ebay, the dollar is so low in value more bids from outside the US are probably increasing prices. The US buyer has had it so good for so long, I can't say I sympathize if the odd thing has gone up to be honest.  |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Vintage Ludwig
Platinum Member
Offline
Posts: 1522
|
|
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2007, 08:48 PM » |
|
Expensive? Really?
Not from where I sit.
A decent new snare drum will cost anything from $300 to $1500.
Finding a vintage instrument with so much pedigree for less than $300 is a bargain IMO.
The 5" drums are particularly cheap. The 6.5" versions are verging on expensive these days with the Bonham effect.
Totally agree with you. Was refraining to put my 2 cents worth out there. A decent 400 Supra can be had for 200 or less (70s). A super clean 60s Keystone 400 can be had for 300 or so. 60s Supras are very nice. I spent upwards of 700 for a 1968 LM-402 6.5x14 Supra that is mint. That seemed a bit pricey, but I really wanted it and knew that someone else would pay that and I wouldnt get it. I def. think a Supra of 70s or 60s vintage (heck, maybe even 80s) is quite a great value indeed. Explore others to get a feel-look at something like Noble&Cooley, Brady, old Slingerland (Radioking) or Roger (Dynasonic) those puppies are pricey Spend 100 bucks on a Acro! Now theres a deal!!! |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
motech
Copper Member
Offline
Posts: 58
|
|
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2007, 11:12 PM » |
|
My very first drum was a chrome Lud 400 and I still have it. olive badges and all. It's in perfect shape, no peeling and after sitting for 20 odd years I only recently stuck a new coated Amb head on it and tune it up. Only had to polish it up a bit. From the sounds of things, maybe I need to get this thing posted for sale on Ebay  . Not a bad sounding snare but when I see some say the 400 doesn't sound much diff than the deeper 402 I have to  . The 5"er has a more wood like crack to its sound to my ears and I prefer the deeper 402 sound to the 400 personally. IMO, the only reason an older 400 would go for any real high $ is for older gear collector interests, or sentimental reasons. Maybe the aforementioned 'Bonham' effect. Love Bonzo's drumming, but wouldn't pay big $ for an old drum for that reason. Not a bad sounding drum in any case. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Marcos
supporter
Silver Member
Offline
Posts: 467
|
|
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2007, 11:51 PM » |
|
... That seemed a bit pricey, but I really wanted it and knew that someone else would pay that and I wouldnt get it....
The above quote is the real reason. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
- Marcos*********  "If you can play, you can play anything. I don't like classifications."
|
|
|
Vintage Ludwig
Platinum Member
Offline
Posts: 1522
|
|
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2007, 12:11 AM » |
|
The above quote is the real reason.
You are right-it was one of those situations where things fall into place. Its rare to find one thats 40 years young, in NEW condition, no issues, and flat out classic Supra sound. And I knew if I blinked and missed it, Id probably never see another like it. And I wont ever get rid of it- |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
diddle
supporter
Gold Member
Online
Posts: 671
I love to play chess and sip coffee!
|
|
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2007, 03:47 AM » |
|
... and in part because many people perceive vintage as better. I probably fall into that trap myself.
Why do you think vintage is better? |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Chris Whitten
Honorary Cafe VIP
Platinum Member
Online
Posts: 5898
|
|
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2007, 05:11 AM » |
|
Firstly, having played a lot of gear, I've achieved some amazing sounds and had much enjoyment playing older gear.
It can often be cheaper than new too, so in my mind it's a win-win.
Secondly, having said that, I did allude to the fact (above) that I might assume vintage is better too often.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
diddle
supporter
Gold Member
Online
Posts: 671
I love to play chess and sip coffee!
|
|
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2007, 02:22 PM » |
|
Firstly, having played a lot of gear, I've achieved some amazing sounds and had much enjoyment playing older gear.
It can often be cheaper than new too, so in my mind it's a win-win.
... I've wondered why lots of folks prefer vintage... I guess it all comes down to personal preference... I'm one of those guys who always needs to have new stuff... cars, houses, drums, whatever... I know, I'm a freak, huh? Ebay is a great place to find drum equipment... I've sold lots of stuff there over the years and have only bought a pair of used hats once... and got rid of them shortly thereafter... the cool thing about Ebay is that you can use it to determine fair market value for stuff... I'm just unwilling to pay more for something just b/c it is old... |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Chris Whitten
Honorary Cafe VIP
Platinum Member
Online
Posts: 5898
|
|
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2007, 07:56 PM » |
|
Yeah.
The older stuff I've paid more for has offered me a sound I can't find in brand new gear:
Ludwig 1920's Black Beauty, Paiste Sound Creation and Istanbul K Zildjian cymbals.
However, some amazing sounding kits are still cheaper than new ones, like Ludwig Keystone, Gretsch SSB and Camco Oaklawn.
I'd much rather pay around $200 for a nice old A Zildjian or slightly used Sabian, than $300 or more for a new one.
To me the sound is the same - often better.
So if the sound is the same, why spend more money?
I really think even slightly used contemporary gear like a DW or Yamaha kit is pretty much a no brainer financially, without compromising performance.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
diddle
supporter
Gold Member
Online
Posts: 671
I love to play chess and sip coffee!
|
|
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2007, 08:41 PM » |
|
you've given me a good idea, Chris, for a topic... gonna go post it now in the equipment section...
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Peppe
Bronze Member
Offline
Posts: 223
|
|
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2007, 09:28 PM » |
|
300 dollars for a new Supra-Phonic? Here in Sweden, they seem to be very expensive. Around at least 700 US dollars. I've never seen a vintage Supra-Phonic sell for the price of a new one here.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
"Are you funky?" Sly Stone's first words to Andy Newmark
|
|
|
bongo
supporter
Gold Member
Offline
Posts: 825
Designated Driver
|
|
« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2007, 12:17 PM » |
|
Really, though, new ones, which sound phenomenal and not unlike the older ones, go for around $300. Why should a used, pitted one from the '70's go for over $200(which I've seen a lot)? The law of supply and demand should dictate that these drums are as common as dirt.....maybe this is why I have a day job, ha ha!
P.S. Chris, just came across your pic in Geoff Nicholls's Drum Book.
Dan
The old ones have that built in muffler, which I'd pay big bucks for, but thank goodness I already got an olive badge I bought new back in the seventies. The 400 has great sound, but now I play an '02 Ludwig maple, which I muffle a bit with foam ... they should put muffles on the new ones too. My old 400 does have pitting on the chrome, which I wonder if it's from sweat or traveling in the car trunk, or what? |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Danno
supporter
Platinum Member
Online
Posts: 1408
Drummer Cafe rocks!
|
|
« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2007, 09:23 PM » |
|
Ive said it a hundred times, ive never gotten a steal on ebay and the price things go for always surprises me.
I've gotten a dozen steals on eBay - I bought twelve Acrolites [over the course of eight months] then fixed them up and re-sold them, except for the best one which I kept for myself. The average price I paid including shipping was about $65. Average I sold them for incl. shipping was $105. It took a lot of time, though. It wouldn't have been worth it for the money - I did it for fun, made a little money, and got a great snare for free. I did it by searching every snare drum ad on eBay 2-3 times a week, looking for mislabeled Acrolites (i.e. chrome snare drum, Weatherking Snare, Lugwig drum, anything that wouldn't turn up in a search for Ludwig or Acrolite). The worse the ad/photos, the better - I snared one for $32 because no one else figured out it was an Acrolite. However, I tried the same thing with Supras for a while and had exactly zero luck. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
