morphoid
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« on: February 16, 2007, 07:56 AM » |
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Hello and sorry for the inexperienced question, but I would like some opinions as to which would be a better acquisition: the Sonor Force 2005 or the Gretsch Catalina Standard Both of birch. I've already got cymbals, cymbal stands, pedals, tambourine, so I'm trying to see if I can get a deal excluding what I already have (looks like they will discount the hi hat stand and the pedals, which is the included hardware I don't really need). The reason I mention these two is because they are the two "semi-professional" kits available to me at the price I'm looking at, a comparison to a Pearl Export would also be appreciated. The main goal is for playing rock, mostly rehearsing without really considering performances. Hopefully I'll improve and be able to really enjoy the kit with more styles. This is NOT for starting out. Sturdiness would be pretty important to me. Due to how much one can manipulate heads, etc, I'm not sure trying out the drums would be enough for a decision. Not too happy about the possible variations: Force 2005 - Fusion - 20"x10"x12"x14"x14". or Fusion 2 - 22"x10"x12"x14"(suspenso)x14" Catalina - TT 12", 13", FT 16", BD 22", SD 14 x 5" Looks like it will be up to how I like the pitches, although that would be something that new heads could probably change right? With differential tuning and whatnot. I am looking for adaptability, since I would like to be able to play at least inside the rock genre styles from ska to metal. Hmm. I apologize for the lame question, but I've been looking here at these forums and I'm pretty convinced opinions from here surely couldn't hurt.  |
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-Hugo (Sonor 2007) An extremely proud fan of Thrice |
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Paicey
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« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2007, 12:21 PM » |
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My response will seem kinda dumb maybe but being in your position if price is close I go with color options because its important to me and when I was starting out being cool was a factor also. Does Sonor make you feel cool?, they do me. Go with cool, being cool is important and im not being condescending here.
Both of these kits will sound nice. When you look at the kits or photos dont you have a gut feeling about one or the other?. Ive heard nice things about both kits. Go with your gut.
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eardrum
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« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2007, 02:23 AM » |
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Sturdiness would be pretty important to me. Due to how much one can manipulate heads, etc, I'm not sure trying out the drums would be enough for a decision. Not too happy about the possible variations: Force 2005 - Fusion - 20"x10"x12"x14"x14". or Fusion 2 - 22"x10"x12"x14"(suspenso)x14" Catalina - TT 12", 13", FT 16", BD 22", SD 14 x 5" Looks like it will be up to how I like the pitches, although that would be something that new heads could probably change right? ...... .....I apologize for the lame question, but I've been looking here at these forums and I'm pretty convinced opinions from here surely couldn't hurt. First off, there are no lame questions. But you can search the cafe and find lots of different discussions on these subjects. Second, Sturdiness is very important and you should be able to tell from the gear in front of you how well it was made. If it looks and feels cheap, well if it quacks like a duck and walk like a duck...... I'm not a big fan of the Gretsch Catalina since I've seen one shipped that must have slipped past quality control (but that was only one) and I did not like the snare on a Catalina Birch set I played once. Third, I don't know what you mean by "Not too happy about the possible variations". If you aren't happy with the sizes, do not buy it. You really don't have to compromise unless you are stuck on one brand/model/store. There are many other options even if you can't spend thousands of dollars. Taye makes very good stuff and you can get any configuration you want for similar pricing. If you want big sound, get big drums. If you need flexibility, get smaller drums (you can always mic em). Last, tuning is huge and can't be over-emphasized. Whatever you get, you'll be able to do a lot if you put the time into trying different heads/tunings, etc. Good luck. |
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morphoid
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« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2007, 07:23 AM » |
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Thanks for both replies.
Paicey, I think you can say I am sort of considering that, and it's kind of a tie.
eardrum, I say I'm not that happy because I won't be able to make a direct comparison between the two set due to the different tom sizes (you can say they're sold that way to have no direct competition I guess), and I was to curious to see how a stage 2005 would sound like. Due to my geographical location (Lisbon, Portugal) it's difficult finding used instruments and the selection isn't that huge. And if I've seen Taye around, it was probably on something outside my decided price range. There are Exports with a slightly higher price available, so any comments on the Export in comparison to these 2 kits would be appreciated.
I have searched the forum, and that helped me decide on getting birch for instance. On the models I didn't find out that much. On the brands, I gather it that Sonor is known for sturdiness. The Catalina seems to me to be something untypical of Gretsch, so I'm not sure the brand can tell that much about it.
I'll have to see if a 14" floor tom will be good enough for me. Seems a bit small at first impression, but won't be much up to the heads and tuning? I'm probably making too much of a fuss about the sizes. Specially since I'm not sure what pitch I want from each tom.
I'm not sure what heads I can find around, but I'm thinking of getting powerstroke 3 for the bass beater at least.
I was told that Sonors come with Remo-made heads, not sure about the the quality of those, and I've already seen that the Catalina heads (Evans) aren't that good.
Meanwhile I have to find somewhere to store a kit and practice on it. But that's another story for another time. And thanks again.
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-Hugo (Sonor 2007) An extremely proud fan of Thrice |
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0007
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« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2007, 12:48 AM » |
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Interesting chioce. I'm not very familiar w/ the Force 2005, but I'm looking at their Force 2007 on their website...I assume it is similar. However, I do have a Catalina Birch kit at home:
Toms and the kick -- love them all.
Snare -- cantankerous (but, for hard rock, an Evans hydraulic head works really well to dampen overtones)
The pitches produced by the toms should be pretty much the same between brands, inch for inch. Shell depths are identical, and both brands use 7.0mm-thick shells. This is a fairly thick shell, which will give you a higher-pitch fundamental tuning range...compared to, say, the Tama Starclassic Performer toms, which use a much thinner birch shell.
If durability is important because you'll be setting up/tearing down frequently, then you might be in trouble. Neither brand offers a wrap as a finish choice -- but the lacquered finishes are NICE.
If you mean "durable" in the sense that they can take a beating, I know the Gretsch drums & hardware are more than ample. From the looks of them, I'd say the Sonors are up to the task as well...even though die-cast hoops are not offered in either line.
I'd say the acid test is to compare snare drums between the two brands. Ask to tune them to your liking, and try to see which one seems most controllable.
Either way, I, along with most every drummer, would recommend a new set of heads for the toms. I've had very good results with Evans' EC2s on my toms, for both mic'd and un-mic'd gigs.
Good luck!
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chevvies
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« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2007, 09:18 AM » |
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I'm not sure about Catalina, but I got a 2005 snare which is fantastic and an absolute bargain, the stand is too. I was thinking of even getting a fusion size Sonor 505 kit for light gig use, such is my current confidence in their products. My local store is a Pearl dealer but I wasn't in the least bit impressed with their budget offerings.
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morphoid
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« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2007, 05:09 PM » |
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Thanks again all for the great input. I'm really glad I found this forum, and I'll be around checking threads out from now on. I still have (unfortunately) a good deal of time to decide, but I'm leaning towards the Catalina. I've found out that I'll have access to a good selection of heads where I'll be getting the set, so that's what I'll mostly be investigating now. The Catalina because I like it visually a bit better, and I'm leaning toward the Standard-sized toms and bass. I might in the future order a smaller tom, perhaps 8 inch, to get a better tom "spectrum", for stuff ska/reggae sounding. I was excited about owning a Sonor, but I think a Gretsch would make me feel even better  A store a whole @$%# nearer to me has Pearls, but their offer in my range is the Export for a considerable bit higher price, as well as making no deal to exclude pedal and hi hat stand. |
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-Hugo (Sonor 2007) An extremely proud fan of Thrice |
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VARBED
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« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2007, 08:51 PM » |
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DDG, I have a Force 3005, with which I have been very happy. The mounting system on the F3005 and F2005 are the same, and I can tell you that they work awsome. For a chinese kit, you would be very surprised by the finished product. Bearing edges good, finishes are excellent, and the sound is very impressive. Check out www.sonormuseum.com. Someone there will definitely be able to give you a first hand account of the Force 2005. -V |
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I'm the drummer, adjust your time accordingly.
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morphoid
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« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2007, 02:11 PM » |
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Thanks VARBED. The reviews I found weren't all that happy (most significant complaint I found there would be that the bass is very dead sounding). I'm not sure where it leaves me, but I'm not really searching for a rich resonant bass anyway. Found out that I won't be able to make a Catalina deal without pedal and HH stand. I could, but the wonderful way it works around here would make it more expensive than WITH the full hardware. Grr. On the other hand, I found a slightly cheaper Export EX, poplar 6 ply, 7.5 mm. Standard and "fusion" sizes. Don't really like the individual tom mounting (only system I have experience with though ) Now I am looking between that and the 20" Force 2005, I guess. I think I'd rather have a 22" bass but that would mean a 14" tom instead of a 14" floor tom. Stoopid country. I hate Euros (currency). |
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-Hugo (Sonor 2007) An extremely proud fan of Thrice |
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yesdannysback
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« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2007, 03:11 PM » |
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I also have a catalina at home, 8" 10" 12" 14" and 22"; The original snare sits in a bag behind my kit and has never been touched since I replaced it with a Star Classic snare instead. For me, this kit is extremely versatile since I use it to play jazz and show tunes for a high school choir gig I have, hard rock and alternative for a cover band, and occasionally worship team, (sometimes I just use the V-drums).
I slap dead ringers on for church and choir shows, and do have that BD head from evans that has the foam ring around it, (cannot remember what it's called for the life of me) but no other dampening agent in bd. Is this my dream set? NO, but it does the trick until I win the lottery...
JMO though
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...and the beat goes on...
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morphoid
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« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2007, 03:54 PM » |
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An update on my situation:
upside I've found -> I've been cut a deal with a 22" bass and floor tom instead of 3rd tom.
downside (not important at all though) -> deal is with one boom and one regular instead of two boom cymbals as in catalog.
This is a bit embarrassing for me to ask, but could a Sonor Force owner please tell me if the tom holder has that opening where some people add an arm for a splash? I can't find an image that'll make it clear for me.
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-Hugo (Sonor 2007) An extremely proud fan of Thrice |
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