DRUMMER CAFE

I stand by my assertion of what most drummers are referring to when they talk about a "bop drum sound."

PAPA JO - mea maxima culpa, I snagged the wrong pic, I was going for one of Kenny Clarke.

MR.A - The lead picture of Max in your post is NOT from the early part of his career (just look at the tie!), my contention has never been that drum sets didn't get smaller. The MASSEY HALL concert occurred at the very end of the "bop" era, in 1953 about a year and a half before Bird's death. Look at Max's kit (playing with the same frontline) on the LIVE AT TOWN HALL recording from 1945. Contemporary photographs aside, what Elvin/Tony/Blakey played in the mid to late 50s doesn't really have a bearing on what was recorded from 1945 - 49, which was the height of the bop era.

If I've got to drag out pictorial, gimme a few days to get stuff scanned.

I'm not arguing music history here. I'm saying that the sounds (and sizes) associated with what MOST drummers call a "bop" sound are small drums, like the photos I've shown. It might be more historically accurate to say they are "post bop" sizes, but I've never heard a drummer call them that.

Instead, when somebody talks about a "bop kit" the automatic assumption is a 4-piece kit in small sizes - whether or not that's what they used in 1945. Fair enough?

I'm not saying that they don't call it that but, again, that seems to be based on music that came "after the fact". On another board somewhere somebody had posted some remarks attributed to Stewart Copeland where he talks about "early Miles records". Which is all well and good until he starts talking about the way Herbie, Ron and Tony are playing on them. So, to him, a record that was put on vinyl 15 years or so after Miles first date as a leader is early. Well, OK, but not really.

The bottom line is that, as someone said earlier I think, it kind of doesn't matter WHAT you play, it's HOW you play. I have had the good fortune to play with a couple of drummers from the post bop era and it really didn't matter what size drums they were sitting behind.

Got to agree with Mr. A.

And if people talk about Elvin's sound, they mean Gretsch drums and the old imported K's. That is--dark sounding cymbals and drums. Which is by no means the only sound used by jazz drummers. But to a whole lot of people that was the bop sound like Slingerland and Zildjian A's were associated with big bands ala Gene Krupa and Buddy Rich. Both drummers also used the same stuff for small combos too, but that is not what people associate them with.

About the coated heads, just about everybody used coated heads for all types of music in the 60's. In the 50's everybody was using skins, the real thing.

Too much iformation!