DRUMMER CAFE

The last thing I will say is you are right. I have agreed with this post from the begining, and unless you want to end up like me, get a Teacher!
So from now on when someone wants to know the Magic Shortcut to Better Playing we can point them to this:

Get a Teacher
Change Your Attitude
Practice Hard
Drink All Your Milk
Learn Your Rudiments
Say Nope to Dope and Ughhh to Drugs!

I must be totally missing your point, but if you felt I was coming across as offended, it's probably not worth pursuing. I'm obviously not communicating on my end, either. Was just having a nice discussion.

It's all cool Mr Whitten, I know that you meant no harm....

Good thread by the way!!

That's true, but tuition goes way beyond building super fast chops.
I don't have a major technique and don't really want one, well I don't want one enough to lock myself in a bedroom with a practice pad for ten years.
The biggest thing I got from one of my drum teachers was learning to relax.
I would play my stuff for him every week and every week he would frown and say "I saw that left shoulder go up again" or "I could hear you holding your breath in the technical part".
These days I concentrate on breathing normally and most times you could knock the sticks out of my grip with a fairly light tap.
You need this even to play basic rock grooves properly and in time.
I learnt other stuff - a certain amount of musicality (ear training), a certain amount of self discipline (professionalism), basic skills like music theory and an ability to read music.
I have most definitely seen forum members wear their self tuition as a badge of honour, some have even stated they didn't want to pollute their natural gift.
Self tuition to me is like the old smoking argument - my grandad smoked 80 a day since he was 13 years old and died of influenza at 103. Yeah, but millions don't. 
Some self taught musicians are incredible, but quite a few self taught Cafe members exhibit the signs of a basic fault in their playing technique. A very simple fault can stop an incredibly talented musician from progressing beyond 'journeyman' or seldom hired, weekend warrior.

Hey Gadd,
I said in my post that You and Chrisso see both sides of it.  Like we have said on here before.  No one is really self taught.  I learned watching Bonham, Palmer and Peart.  Tried to play their grooves and get down their fills.  This term "Proud to be Self Taught", I am not really super proud to be self taught or I wouldn't have blown that and started paying for lessions. I have put a whole bunch of time behind a drum kit in my life time.
Probably would have been a better drummer right now if I had the lessions from a good teacher to go with all that practice. I learn stuff watching and listening. This Cafe sent me a Akiro Jimbo video.  He is killer and he put a really good drum lession in the middle of the Video.  Last week I went and saw a band play with one of the best drummers in Louisville.  I got to watch the guy for about an hour and a half up close. I picked up some unusual stickings from him.  I am a sponge when it comes to drumming.
I come on this forum almost every day and read posts like Felix telling that guy you can go from 16th notes on the high hat and every 3rd measure play 32nd notes.  I do understand this basic stuff and I also do this stuff but never had to discuss it with anyone. I have lots of video of me playing and I am always relaxed.  I am about to send Bart some Video of me playing so I have someone to critique my playing.  He said he does that for people and it is not very expensive either. Honestly, In 37 years of playing,
I have put more time into it in the last 11 years or so.  I have been paying for some lessions this past year.  My game has made bigger strides this year than any other but I am still putting lots of time behind a drum kit.
I am not offended by any of your post here and I hope no one is getting offended with mine.  I think that everyone has made some really good points here.  I don't really think there is any magic short cut  to better playing.  It all comes from hard work and how bad you want it. One more thing!!! I have never said that Lessons can mess up what you are doing on drums. I don't see how lessons can do anything but make you better.
                             Nutty

Yes sir, you are right, I have learn much from Mr. A on this forum.  I learn from all of you. and I will keep taking lessons and reading post here.
                Nutty

In my opinion, The Cafe is not about inexperienced drummers posting questions for experienced drummers to answer.
Yes, that happens, but......
A lot of the time it's about sharing experiences from a gig you did last weekend, or asking for advice about a couple of kits you are tring to choose between. Or sharing enthusiasm for you favourite drummer. Or pointing us towards some inspirational or stupidly funny YouTube clip.
By and large, the less experienced and more part time (shall we say) members get as much forum space as any other who has a 'reputation'.
We all choose our own life path.
Some people will become fully immersed in drumming. They will then make millions of other choices, like whether to seek formal education or not, how much drum tuition to engage in etc.....
I had some influence over a much younger (learning) drummer. This person had an unhealthy obsession in the glamour side of the industry, I'm talking huge kits, hugely long drum solos.
It turned out Kenny Aronoff was coming to town and performing a clinic.
The perfect antidote I thought. Even if one is not obsessed with the showboating side of drumming, a chance to get close to Kenny Aronoff is almost a must grasp opportunity IMO.
I told the kid, I spoke with the parents. They knew the venue, the time etc...
They didn't go....... because they decided to undertake a sporting pursuit that day instead.
People make their own decisions in life.
If you have a physical problem that hinders your drumming however (which is one reason this topic came up in the first place).
Port of call 1 is the drum tutor, to see if you are set up correctly.
If that approach fails, port of call 2 is the medical practioner, to see if there is some physical condition that is the problem.
I would never ask a bunch of strangers on a drum forum. Well I might, but I'd never make it my final solution.

It sounds to me like some of you want your own "private" forums for you to have your little bragging sessions & whatever else it is that musicians of your "caliber" do. I am sure all you have to do is talk to Bart about it if that is something that he feels will benefit the Cafe, why wouldn't he do it? It's not hard to make a private forum section. You guys can have your own little secret handshake or drum cadence...
Rather than put down the people who come here searching for help because they don't realize they are actually imposing on your little clique, maybe make it clear when someone goes to register, that these forums are for drummers who don't need help with anything, dumb questions will not be tolerated, rather than go off on these rants because your territory has been violated.

my bad, I was talking to Chris Whitten, not you Gadd; so if I could please have my head back for when Chris posts his response that would be great. If you want to know what post I am refering to I will tell you; it was a rather recent post by someone who had played and took a 10 year break and was starting up again. He was asking about tom sizes and why people are using smaller toms more now then before.
Chris's response was "Does it really matter?" followed by "I don't know" and then some story about what he uses and his sets, blah blah blah. I can't figure out why someone would even bother responding like that.

I don't deny having a chip on my shoulder but that's just my personality when it comes to my drum playing. Am I the best, not at all, but can I sit in with any band and have the confidence to play what ever is asked, yes. If someone asks me something and I know the answer, I would tell them, and if they don't listen that is their loss. If I don't know the answer, I find out, for their benefit and my own.

Please keep in mind that I am fairly new here, but I am not new to playing drums or being a musician. I do indeed have a lot of knowledge and exp but I came here in search of answers. Unlike many of you who have teachers you can call and ask a question, or pm amongs yourselves, I have to do the actual research and history background of most topics which includes reading a lot of threads; I never thought I would actually engage in a debate about the protical of the Cafe with you guys.

I can't wait until the morning...

Something which occurred to me whilst reading this: (and possibly changing the topic slightly)

Obviously, having lessons with a *good* teacher, is a good, effective way of learning and avoiding picking up bad techniques.

But what if you have lessons with a *bad* teacher? Maybe someone who's a great player, but not good at communicating and inspiring you? Or even someone with bad techniques themselves, which they are passing on?

Obviously this isn't a good situation - in the first instance you might just get bored, or throw your money away every week without really gaining anything, and in the second you could actually do yourself some real harm.

Now I would hope that I could tell if a teacher is "good" or "bad". In the past Bart has suggested contacting a new teacher and chatting to them (maybe meeting up) before you start lessons about your aims and goals, which gives you a chance to determine if they will be a good match.

But for someone who's brand new to drumming, it might not be obvious that teacher you're starting with is no good? So the advice "get a teacher" could be detrimental.