DRUMMER CAFE

Recent bad experience?

I can't say I've had a bad experience with a percussionist imposing Latin styles over pop, but I've only had the experience a handful of times. I dream of being in a band with a full-time percussionist! I once had an issue with a percussionist who fancied himself as a timbalero, and showed off his skills on every song (it seemed). But that was one easily forgettable night.

I'm soaking your post in because I've broken all these rules myself as an amateur percussionist who was recently employed for a folk coffee house gig. I'm also frustrated I never seem to have enough toys, although I'm finding some fun applications for the triangle. The tambourine has always frightened me because I'm just not very consistent with it ... it's a very difficult percussion instrument! It's akin to sleigh bells, which took me a good month of practice to get the feel. But I agree it's an essential instrument to pop music, and so is the shaker. My problem is I have a hard time getting away from the shaker. It's always my fall back position. I have five different size shakers! I'm pretty good with them, though. Sometimes I get a medium sized shaker going in the right while doing slushier stuff with the big one on the left. It sounds good to me.

I think a lot of drummers such as myself go into percussion think it's going to be easy. Hey, you don't need four-limb independence, right? Then you pick up a heavy metal shaker and try playing 16th notes with it in your right hand while playing congas or bongos or timbales or a cowbell or woodblock with your left and ... well, it's every bit as complicated as drum set. Also, there are so many percussion instruments, like a gourd, that unless you grow up with them are very difficult to get good sound and make plausible rhythm with them.

I try really hard to learn percussion and treat each instrument with respect. For example, I no longer look at the triangle and think of the "Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star" in 6th grade orchestra. I see it like I see a hi-hat or cymbal. I no longer look at the congas as an extension of the toms toms, rather, a group of batterie voices that need to make sense on their own as much as they need to fit with what the drummer's doing.

I still have a hard time finding where percussion fits well in the pop genre. I'm constantly dazzled by those who do it well, like Ray Cooper.

Can we go the reverse now? Drummers need to learn how to work with percussionists too. My pet peeves in my limited experience:

- Drummers who fill all the space with toms, or play excessive tom-based grooves

- Drummers who fiddle with their cymbals all the time. Just lay it down, right? You've got a percussionist to create ambient noises.

- Drummers who try and match what you're doing, or play to a style they think they're hearing from the percussion.

Back to percussionists then perhaps. 

Might I remind anyone reading, I'm suggesting rules strictly for pop percussion. Chart album type stuff.
I realise once you get into funk, fusion, RnB, etc... the gloves are off. 

One of my favorite stories along this line, showing the other side of the proverbial coin:  Ralph MacDonald was interviewed in Modern Percussionist magazine about twenty years ago (a short-lived offshoot of Modern Drummer, but really good for what it was - but that's another topic for another time).  He related a story of being called into a session, and having the producers say, "We've got a song we'd like to run past you."  After listening to the existing tracks, Ralph said, "I don't think that song needs any percussion."

The producers replied, "We didn't think so, either.  We just wanted to hear you say that."  And with that, they paid him for his time and sent him home. 

One more. If you can't get behind rule 1-6 then try to get a sound or use a technique that no one has ever used before. The other night I was just visiting a recording session of a friend's band. I started messing around with a vibraslap, yes a vibraslap. Before long I had a pretty cool march-y type rhythm going, sort of a tap/choke kind of thing, trying to control the length of the rattle, it actually sort of sound like a castanet thing. They liked it so much they tracked it. But, boy was it tough to play it correctly consistantly. The cool thing was, it had nothing at all to do with the existing drumset part. And I'm not even a percussionist (obviously).

intriguing posts all. i usually play percussion with singer/guitarists who play a lot of rock and pop. no latin and very little jazz or funk........ despite being around miami.

 anyway, i often find myself struggling to find something to play behind a, say, pearl jam tune which originally featured a bunch of heavy drums. there i am with my congas looking for a beat that makes sense.

 i find it hard not to sound a little latin-y on a lot of these covers, even though i know thats not really the sound to go for.


 i use a foot pedal with a block which helps with the 4/4 on a lot of these intrinsically very simple little rock tunes. and i have added a hihat that also fills out the sound. and  yes, i, play a sabian hand splash cymbal because its usually just me. and i need it.

 and although i have some hand perc like maracas and cowbell and clave sticks, i very rarely use them because it seems like the beat is needed on congas first before i can get into the shakers and i unfortunately only have two hands and two feet.

 sometimes, i play the congas and hihat like a snare/hithat combo, using rutes which helps on rock covers that essentially derive from regular drumsets.

but i guess im always wondering what i can do on the congas alone when the solo lead guy launches into, oh, a who tune like one did the other night, which is about as anti-percussion sounding white music as you can get.

 i found a nice groove on a killers song, though, but i flailed a bit behind some of the basic rock stuff. any ideas?

Sorry man, your text was a bit too dense.....no caps, no paragraphs. Help an old guy out, please. 

I immediately thought a of a heavy metal samba........... ala Bonham "Fool in the Rain"  Chris, I hope you see the joke and tomorrow is better!!!!

your text was a bit too dense......

how's zat?

nice one chris. i've only ever worked with percussionists at church. mutual respect and leaving space was key to the whole drum thing fitting together neatly and interestingly.

who was the percussionist you worked with in the live dire straits shows? you and he did a ripping duet on the 'calling elvis' song (the live cd version). how much of that was planned and how much of it was free jamming?

j