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Author Topic: Groovin  (Read 491 times)
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mikeyoo89
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« on: June 06, 2007, 12:25 AM »

I've heard all kinds of things on groovin in a session and that keeping perfect time is not completely related to how groovin you are. People have told me (in a jazz setting) that the bass player should be "walking" slightly ahead of the drummer. Some people have also told me that they should be playing exactly at the same time as the bass. Alot of this is really kind of confusing me and I was hoping some of you would be able to give me insight. Thanks.
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Nuclear
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« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2007, 01:46 AM »

Playing behind or ahead of the beat alters the perception of the tempo slightly. If you ride just behind the bass player the groove will stretch a bit and feel slower than it actually is, which is often a desirable characteristic in a slow funk or blues tune etc. Playing slightly ahead of the pulse does the opposite, making the tune sound more energetic. It is analogous to a key change in a song in a way: you move to a higher key to get that "bright" moment, or lower to bring it down a bit. Does that help?

There is no rule that says jazz drummers must play behind the beat - the music dictates where you play, and musicians generally have a propensity to play on one side or the other naturally. We aren't metronomes after all. Don't be concerned about making a conscious effort to be ahead or behind, just play what feels natural for the tune - chances are you'll be on the right side whether you know it or not.

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« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2007, 10:49 AM »

This behind ahead stuff really interests me. Larrie Londin on video once stated that very few drummers really KNOW how to play to a click track but the ones that DO are MAGICAL. He talked of playing ON the beat at intro, on top at the verse, behind at certain sections and then ON the click once again. Im very conscious of playing (steady) but the ability to purposely play ahead, as well as behind the beat is yet another skill on top of ALREADY playing steady. Drummers have a freakin tough job! rounding things up in the musical corral. Man, should i have stuck with guitar?......NOT!!!!! Cool.
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Gaddabout
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« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2007, 04:09 PM »

I've heard all kinds of things on groovin in a session and that keeping perfect time is not completely related to how groovin you are. People have told me (in a jazz setting) that the bass player should be "walking" slightly ahead of the drummer. Some people have also told me that they should be playing exactly at the same time as the bass. Alot of this is really kind of confusing me and I was hoping some of you would be able to give me insight. Thanks.

It is confusing, but the techniques you're talking about aren't even mastered by great, great drummers with many years of experience. It is often such a subjective decision by both the drummer and other decision makers that they are often at odds. If guys like Jeff Porcaro can get replaced on a gig (that admittedly was rare), than I think it's safe to say no one has ever had the perfect interpretation for keeping time for all situations. You should just practice the best you can, use your best judgment possible, listen to every bit of instruction you're given, and live with the results.

I know I've had people tell me I was dragging, but on replaying the track it was clearly another instrument -- rhythm guitarist is often guilty of this. Other times, I've found keyboardists are a little too perfect in their time for the kind of music they were playing (i.e. gospel or r&B).
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George
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« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2007, 05:57 PM »


I think it's simpler and clearer if the bass player and the drummer are exactly together. Maybe it's a good idea to stick to this as a rule when practising, and then maybe breaking the rule when jamming.
As for me, playing exactly to the click is very hard: I'm usually behind all the other members of the band, especially when getting back from a fill. So my greatest appreciation is to drummers that can continuously play ahead.
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