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Author Topic: Pre recorded instrument parts for gigs. Will this work?  (Read 768 times)
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scottboundy
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« on: July 11, 2007, 11:58 PM »

In my new 60s band I am forming there are some songs that need keyboards or other signature licks. We don't have a keyboard player and may not find one (where are those guys??) Tongue

So I was thinking of just recording the parts needed into GarageBand and outputing a MP3 to an iPod with a count-in and run it through the PA. Then at gigs just fire it up...follow the count and away we go. The iPod provides the missing part and we play around it.

Will this work? Anyone try this? Are there other ways to get pre-recorded samples into your band without having to have a humanoid producing it?

Thanks much ohh wizards of music knowledge  Grin

sb
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Chris Whitten
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« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2007, 01:46 AM »

You'd need at least one person playing to a click to make this work.
Actually, playing along to pre-recorded material or sequencer parts takes a bit of organising. The band members need to hear the parts clearly in order not to get lost (not that easy without good monitors) and if you deviate at all from the arrangement it'll be one mighty car crash.
Apart from logistics, I personally think it would be the kiss of death for any band trying to sound 'sixties'.  Wink
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scottboundy
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« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2007, 02:15 AM »

Thanks Whitt...kinda what I was thinking  Tongue

I know with my other band I'm in,  we sometimes play to one of our covers on a CD through the PA while we are warming up. Often we might drown out the PA as everyone joins in. We all think we are playing along to the song because you can hear glimpses of it but if we stop, ya realize we are NOWHERE near the beat or even in the same part of the song.  Shocked

Oh well, back to the humanoid method

sb
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Mister Acrolite
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« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2007, 04:52 AM »

Lots of cover bands do this, but as Chrisso says, it means playing along to a click or a drum-machine sequence. So at the very least the drummer will need headphones or a good monitor, and can lead the rest of the band with his or her playing.

I've done tons of gigs like these over the years, and continue to do them - they used to bug me, but now I don't mind them. Not every song will lend itself to this, and it can be a challenge to keep the sequence from sounding mechanical. But it can be done very effectively - it's just a VERY different way to play, which you may or may not find enjoyable. And of course there is ZERO margin for error.
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New York Frank
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« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2007, 08:25 AM »

And of course there is ZERO margin for error.

 Smiley

So true.

We have done this stuff, too.  There are pros and cons.

The players better All be comfortable with playing along to a perfect time source.
Some find this a no brainer and some simply Can't Do It.   Some Think they can do it,
and can't even Hear that they're Not doing it.    Wink

You obviously also have to accept Zero changes to the arrangement of a tune.

[i.e. We'll play things the same way, but if people are dancing, all bets are off, and we
 extend/loop sections.  You can't do that with an MP3.]

From my own personal experience - I enjoyed it less than I thought I would.  It's do-able,
but for me it is to be avoided.   YMMV.
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sleepybrIghteyez
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« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2007, 10:54 PM »

I saw a band not long ago that played to some sequenced keyboard parts. They were really tight and even though I didn't like the style, I had a lot of respect for them pulling it off. My guitar player wants to try recording bass parts to his looper, and stomping it during our shows since our bass player just left town for a couple months. I don't really like the idea. Every time I have tried to play along to loops he's made, there's always some point that doesn't stay in time and it throws me off. He wants me to just get used to the out of sync part, but I'd rather just keep it live. If I triggered any loops it would be purely ambient soundscapes.
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XGen
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« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2007, 07:37 AM »

I actually did 6 months touring as a guitar player for a band that used both pre-recorded background vocals and sequenced keyboard parts. All the players involved were competent so it went without hiccups. Basically a computer running nuendo with a Multi-I/O interface fed the metronome as audio-click to the drummer, a MIDI clock to the Keyboard, and MIDI patch change and other stuff for both guitar players (me and another guy). And of course a stereo audio output for the mixer. So basically we just concentrated on playing our guitars and let the sequencer change sounds for us (still had to control the wah pedal in certain situations, of course).

It was fun in a way because we could rock the stage and forget about everything else. Not so fun if you like improvisation, or if slight tempo changes (in the benefit of the music of course) sound good to you (of course you can always program tempo change in the sequencer). Of course getting everything working takes time and patience Smiley

Regards

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Danno
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« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2007, 09:35 PM »

From my own personal experience - I enjoyed it less than I thought I would.  It's do-able, but for me it is to be avoided.   YMMV.

That's my experience too. I was in a band where the bandleader pre-recorded rhythm tracks/backing vocals for EVERY song, so I had to play listening to headphones for every song. It was tedious and joyless for me. I had to chart out the songs I didn't know exactly because you CAN'T screw up when you're playing to a track. Plus you can't really even hear what you're playing. It sucked all the fun out of playing for me.
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Louis
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« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2007, 09:49 PM »

Sequenced parts may work for some groups but I worked for one artist that insisted that if you could not do it live you didn't do it in the studio.  Then again, this was well before the electronic revolution took over music.  There was a musician who played at the state fair each year for the Chevy display if I remember correctly.  He played guitar and harmonica plus organ pedals for the bass lines.  He also used sequenced back up vocals and keys.  He was an excellent performer who made it work well. 
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David Crigger
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« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2007, 09:46 AM »

Scott -

The way to actually attempt this with the Garageband to iPod set-up you described - and I subcribe to all the "you may not really enjoy it nearly as much as you think you will" warnings - would be to record the oft-suggested click as a part in Garageband along with the other parts.  Then mix it down with all the overdubs hard left and the click hard right - using a splitter run the left side to the PA and the right side to some kind of headphone amp (Rolls makes one; as do others).

The click will let, at least, you stay with the ipod - and will also many the keyboard parts wouldn't have to be continuous.

Be sure to put four extra clicks in front of whatever count-off you'll be using.  For instance, you listen to the first four clicks, then count the band in over the next four, then the song starts (and maybe the extra key parts don't start until the chorus).

It can sound really, but it can also turn the drum chair into the "stay with the click guy", instead of "lead the band guy" - which can certainly be a loss - or at least, just very different.

David
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drumwild
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« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2007, 01:44 PM »

So I was thinking of just recording the parts needed into GarageBand and outputing a MP3 to an iPod with a count-in and run it through the PA. Then at gigs just fire it up...follow the count and away we go. The iPod provides the missing part and we play around it.

Will this work? Anyone try this?

I know many bands that do this.

They have their backing tracks (rhythm guitar for solos, keyboards, backing vocals, etc.) on an iPod. For these guys, the left side contains a click and the right side contains the audio.

The click starts in. After 4 clicks, a voice says "1 2 3 4" and the song starts. At the end, a voice says "5 6 7 8," indicating the end.

The signal from the iPod is split. The left side (with the click) goes into the headphone amplifier (GoldLine), and into the drummer's IEMs. The right side (with the sounds) goes into a DI box, to the board.

The down-side is that there is no room for improv. But with a rehearsed show, there shouldn't be any improv, unless you are a jam band.

The up-side is that the band sounds more like the track, there are less people to squeeze on a stage, and the band makes more money.

The bands I know who do this may not want to be outted, so you can send me a private message and I'll give you a list of at least 3 bands to check out.
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